In what way is the election rigged?

off base wrote:

jewbacca wrote:

So yes, off base, the media can't technically rig the election. But flooding their news outlets with overwhelming anti-Trump rhetoric has a tremendous influence on independent voters, and it is unethical journalism. Do you disagree?

I do agree that if what you say is true, it would be unethical journalism. I'm not convinced it is true though.

Trump is handing the media stories on a silver platter. His biggest enemy is his own words. The media has become very sensationalistic over the years and that is not a good thing, but Trump is a darling to that type of news.

A lot of people have pointed to media not reporting more on WikiLeaks as being bias. The problem with that is WikiLeaks has only released negative things about Clinton and nothing about Trump. That would be like getting mad at ABC for not covering a story released by InfoWars.

Another thing pointing away from media bias is Clinton's approval rating. It has plummeted since she started running for President. She had a 65% approval rating when she was Secretary of State and last I saw she was at 41% approval. I don't remember where I saw this, but she was at one point listed as the 2nd most respected political figure in the country. That would certainly not be the case today.

agip wrote:

so show us statements from HRC that should have been factchecked by NPR but weren't.

In fact it [Trump's tax cuts] would be the most extreme version the biggest tax cuts for the top percents of the people in this country than we've ever had.

We had the worst financial crisis - the great recession, the worst since the 1930s. That was, in large part, because of tax policies that slash taxes on the wealthy, failed to invest in the middle class, took their eyes off of Wall Street and created a perfect storm. [I thought it was 100% about sub-prime loans.]

Independent experts have looked at what I’ve proposed and looked at what Donald has proposed. And basically they have said this -- that if his tax plan, which would blow up the debt by over five trillion dollars, and would, in some instances, disadvantage middle-class families compared to the wealthy, were to go into effect, we would lose three and a half million jobs.

The science is real. [speaking on climate change -- fact checkers didn't touch this, lol]

When I was Secretary of State, we actually increased American exports globally thirty percent. We increased them to China fifty percent.

And people who have looked at both of our plans, have concluded that mine would create ten million jobs and yours would lose us three and a half million jobs.

Because what I have proposed would not add a penny to the debt and your plans will add five trillion dollars to the debt.

We’ve looked at your tax proposals. I don't see changes in the corporate tax rates or the kinds of proposals you are referring to that would cause the repatriation, bringing back of money that is stranded overseas.

Trickle down it did not work. It got us into the mess we were in 2008-2009. Slashing taxes on the wealthy hasn’t worked and a lot of really smart, wealthy people know that.

If you have paid zero, that means zero for troops, zero for vets, zero for schools or health. [obvious lie as some of these are funded through other taxes]

The gun epidemic is a leading cause of death of young African-American men, more than the next nine causes put together.

Too many young African-American and Latino men ended up in jail for nonviolent offenses and it's just a fact that if you are young African-American man and you do the same thing as a young white man, you are more likely to be arrested, charged, convicted and incarcerated.

But remember, Donald started his career back in 1973 being sued by the Justice Department for racial discrimination. Because he would not rent apartments in one of his developments to African-Americans. And he made sure that the people who worked for him understood that was the policy. He actually was sued twice by the Justice Department.

I was involved in a number of efforts to take out Al Qaeda leadership when I was secretary of state, including of course, taking out bin Laden.

Well, I hope the fact checkers are turning up the volume and really working hard. Donald supported the invasion of Iraq.

That means we've got to work more closely with our allies. And that’s something that Donald has been very dismissive of.

With respect to Iran, when I became Secretary of State, Iran was weeks away from having enough nuclear material to form a bomb. They had mastered the nuclear fuel cycle under the Bush administration. They had built covert facilities. They had stocked them with centrifuges that were whirling away And we had sanctioned them. I voted for every sanction against Iran when I was in the Senate.

He [Trump] has said repeatedly that he didn’t care if other nations got nuclear weapons - Japan, South Korea, even Saudi Arabia. It has been the policy of the United States, Democrats and Republicans, to do everything we could to reduce the proliferation of nuclear weapons. He even said, you know if there were nuclear war in East Asia well, you know, that’s fine, have a good time folks.

jewbacca wrote:

agip wrote:

so show us statements from HRC that should have been factchecked by NPR but weren't.

Sure. These are from the first debate alone. Trump was fact checked 45 times, Clinton 21. Not saying they ALL need to be fact checked, but obviously they weren't shy about checking Trump at a higher rate.

In fact it [Trump's tax cuts] would be the most extreme version the biggest tax cuts for the top percents of the people in this country than we've ever had.

We had the worst financial crisis - the great recession, the worst since the 1930s. That was, in large part, because of tax policies that slash taxes on the wealthy, failed to invest in the middle class, took their eyes off of Wall Street and created a perfect storm. [I thought it was 100% about sub-prime loans.]

Independent experts have looked at what I’ve proposed and looked at what Donald has proposed. And basically they have said this -- that if his tax plan, which would blow up the debt by over five trillion dollars, and would, in some instances, disadvantage middle-class families compared to the wealthy, were to go into effect, we would lose three and a half million jobs.

The science is real. [speaking on climate change -- fact checkers didn't touch this, lol]

When I was Secretary of State, we actually increased American exports globally thirty percent. We increased them to China fifty percent.

And people who have looked at both of our plans, have concluded that mine would create ten million jobs and yours would lose us three and a half million jobs.

Because what I have proposed would not add a penny to the debt and your plans will add five trillion dollars to the debt.

We’ve looked at your tax proposals. I don't see changes in the corporate tax rates or the kinds of proposals you are referring to that would cause the repatriation, bringing back of money that is stranded overseas.

Trickle down it did not work. It got us into the mess we were in 2008-2009. Slashing taxes on the wealthy hasn’t worked and a lot of really smart, wealthy people know that.

If you have paid zero, that means zero for troops, zero for vets, zero for schools or health. [obvious lie as some of these are funded through other taxes]

The gun epidemic is a leading cause of death of young African-American men, more than the next nine causes put together.

Too many young African-American and Latino men ended up in jail for nonviolent offenses and it's just a fact that if you are young African-American man and you do the same thing as a young white man, you are more likely to be arrested, charged, convicted and incarcerated.

But remember, Donald started his career back in 1973 being sued by the Justice Department for racial discrimination. Because he would not rent apartments in one of his developments to African-Americans. And he made sure that the people who worked for him understood that was the policy. He actually was sued twice by the Justice Department.

I was involved in a number of efforts to take out Al Qaeda leadership when I was secretary of state, including of course, taking out bin Laden.

Well, I hope the fact checkers are turning up the volume and really working hard. Donald supported the invasion of Iraq.

That means we've got to work more closely with our allies. And that’s something that Donald has been very dismissive of.

With respect to Iran, when I became Secretary of State, Iran was weeks away from having enough nuclear material to form a bomb. They had mastered the nuclear fuel cycle under the Bush administration. They had built covert facilities. They had stocked them with centrifuges that were whirling away And we had sanctioned them. I voted for every sanction against Iran when I was in the Senate.

He [Trump] has said repeatedly that he didn’t care if other nations got nuclear weapons - Japan, South Korea, even Saudi Arabia. It has been the policy of the United States, Democrats and Republicans, to do everything we could to reduce the proliferation of nuclear weapons. He even said, you know if there were nuclear war in East Asia well, you know, that’s fine, have a good time folks.

jewbacca wrote:

agip wrote:

I don't understand what you are saying.

Is your claim every single one of those things you cited is false? Obv that is absurd.

What I need from you is a false statement from HRC that wasn't factchecked by NPR. But that is a serious factual error, on par with Trump's mistatements that got factchecked.

You're changing your question. Every one of these statements should have been fact checked, which was your original question.

My point is that NPR was very quick to jump on every statement by Trump, at a rate of 2 to 1 over Clinton. But they let many points by Hillary slip through the cracks. This is supposed to be unbiased fact checking, yet their rate shows bias. You can't say "Trump needs to be fact checked more often" because I've just given you 18 statements that need fact checking.

Combining that with the strawman fact checks against Trump, how can you say there is no bias here?

It has been made abundantly clear that Trump lies far, far, far more than HRC. So he gets more printed factchecks. he lies more.

agip wrote:

well we have to fundamentall disagree on what 'factchecking' means.

If I say 'a mile is almost exactly 1609 meters' that doesn't need to be printed as a factcheck by NPR. it is true and can stand alone.

If you say "a mile is 1500 meters" then that needs to be factchecked and proven wrong by NPR. It is false and needs to be corrected.

Trump: Murders are up. [arguing for stop-and-frisk in NYC]

Fact Check: Homicides in New York remain low relative to the 1980s and 1990s, according to FBI data and the Brennan Center for Justice.

Nobody is arguing about the 80s and 90s. Trump is actually correct as NYC saw an uptick in the murder rate in 2015, which is the relevant statistic within the context of the debate.

Trump: My tax cut is the biggest since Ronald Reagan.

Fact Check: Donald Trump’s tax plan is indeed a large tax cut, but those cuts would largely benefit the highest earners. According to a recent analysis from the right-leaning Tax Foundation, the top 1 percent could see their after-tax incomes increase by up to 16 percent. Meanwhile, the bottom four quintiles would see their incomes grow by 1.9 percent or less.

Why is NPR arguing against Trump? This is Hillary's job. Nobody was arguing about who would benefit until NPR brought up this straw man.

Trump: So what they're [the wealthy] doing is they're leaving our country and they’re, believe it or not, leaving because taxes are too high and because some of them have lots of money outside of our country.

Fact Check: Much of this is money they make overseas in selling products there, not money they take outside the country.

Nobody was arguing about money being taken out of the country. Trump was arguing about businesses not bringing their money into the country b/c of the high tax burden.