Fast Runner Dude wrote:
Renato Canova wrote:In those years, doping was widespread in China, using substances not detectable, directly from local herbs and plants.
Yes, that's probably it. substances from local herbs and plants. Which no one else knows of. Not even any other Chinese.
or
380m track. The difference is not visible for the human eye. Track has been demolished since. Coincidence?
For the millionth time
The other races would have been much faster if that were the case
FSM wrote:
380m track. The difference is not visible for the human eye. Track has been demolished since. Coincidence?
For the millionth time
The other races would have been much faster if that were the case[/quote]
Which other races? You mean the men's races? Does it matter if the Chinese men run 14:20 or 14:40? They're still not competitive.
Fast Runner Dude wrote:
Which other races? You mean the men's races? Does it matter if the Chinese men run 14:20 or 14:40? They're still not competitive.
The Men's 200m was won in 20.92 by a man who ran 20.83 that same year. If the track had been 20m short as you suggest, you would be suggesting that this 20.8 man could only manage to run the equivalent of 22.02 at the most important meet of his career. That's what 10m is worth at that pace. There is no way China's best sprinter could consistently run 21 dead or better, which he did every year from 1993-1996, and then run one whole second slower at the biggest meet of his life.
You would also need to explain how all of the other men's performances have been consistent from one National Games to another (while the women's varied wildly in the years Ma was coaching), or how nothing out of the ordinary happened at the 1990 Asian Games, held on the same track as the 1993 National Games, or how the hurdlers didn't completely wreck themselves into the barriers, given that the marks on the track would all be short, or how they managed to do it all over again in 1997 in Shanghai, on a track that's used today by international athletes in the Diamond League.
Give us your thoughts on all that.
The easiest answer to the questions you pose is money. As outlined in a great post a few pages back, the provincial system of competing for recognition and funding dictated that the National Games were held in greater importance than international events, So contrary to the assertions of some on here, it's seems that the drive to succeed at the National Games came not from the patriotic pride of the athletes themselves but from self-motivated coaches. With that in mind, and indeed with 1993 China in mind, I don't think it takes a leap of faith to entertain the idea that money could have flown in a few different directions to ensure some normal times in the men's races.
As for the foreigners present a short track wouldn't have been discernable to eye and either two old blokes with a trundle wheel or the IAAF themselves could've been sitting happy on a nice wedge of Chinese Yuan.
Pure speculation of course but it's a dirty old sport.
Grunter wrote:
The easiest answer to the questions you pose is money. As outlined in a great post a few pages back, the provincial system of competing for recognition and funding dictated that the National Games were held in greater importance than international events, So contrary to the assertions of some on here, it's seems that the drive to succeed at the National Games came not from the patriotic pride of the athletes themselves but from self-motivated coaches. With that in mind, and indeed with 1993 China in mind, I don't think it takes a leap of faith to entertain the idea that money could have flown in a few different directions to ensure some normal times in the men's races.
As for the foreigners present a short track wouldn't have been discernable to eye and either two old blokes with a trundle wheel or the IAAF themselves could've been sitting happy on a nice wedge of Chinese Yuan.
Pure speculation of course but it's a dirty old sport.
I have absolutely no idea how you stumbled on this almost year-old thread, but several points with regards to "money".
In order for the money theory to be correct:
- Every male athlete would have had to have been paid off
- Every male sprinter would have had to have such precise control over their pace that they could achieve an "average" time while running for the first time on a short track.
- Every athlete, coach, and official paid off would have had to have remained silent for the last 20+ years.
- For some reason, the female sprinters would also have had to have been paid off.
- The female relays would have had to have been paid off.
- Every hurdler would have had to contend with irregular stepping and jumping patterns without toppling over.
- 4 years later in Shanghai on a track that was not short and still exists, a huge group of female 1500m runners managed to replicate results produced on the short track in 1993. In addition to this, even if the track in Shanghai was somehow short as well, then it only seemed to be short for the 1500m women, since EVERY other male and female race produced fairly average times.
Paying everyone off would be easy. That's how the country runs. I don't know who the best male athletes at that time were but I would imagine dropping them would be the easiest way to bring the times down. And there'd be little incentive for any of the paid off to talk, especially the Chinese.
As for the home straight, wouldn't it be possible to have it set up so that the correct distances are ran for the short races?
Admittedly the Shanghai 1500m race is more difficult to explain but I do believe the Chinese would go to such lengths to ensure below par performances outside of of their handpicked race.
I'm not 100% convinced myself this is how it was done, I just think it's feasible. I think that in the interests of both personal financial gain and national pride, they'd all take the dive.
The lack of video evidence strongly suggests to me there's something we're not allowed to see.
perhaps the Chinese were blood-doppers (turtle blood)??
8:17 (3000m) is 13:48 5000m pace
13:48 5000m pace is 27:36 10000m pace...
There are world class guys that run like Junxia (very short stride for a world class guy, lacks power for a world class guy). So I don't care how much juice she took. Physics say it's impossible...
How many of you have run 13:48?
How many of you, that ended up running faster than 13:48 finally got injured and progress stopped? Was your limitation really your motivation to train or your body?