HEPS XC 2013 OFFICIAL THREAD

Brown rosters are up:

http://www.brownbears.com/sports/m-xc/2013-14/roster

http://www.brownbears.com/sports/w-xc/2013-14/roster

But those also seem preliminary, with a total of something like seven frosh out of ~50 men and women, so I'd say those lists aren't the final word for the Bruins, either.

The D1 Coaches' poll is up--quite different from the other preseason poll previously posted in this thread:

http://www.ustfccca.org/assets/rankings/div1/2013-xc/Div1_XC_2013_Preseason_National-Summary.pdf

For the men, Princeton is #10, Columbia #18, and Dartmouth #29; for the women, Cornell is #10, Princeton #28.

Further from the Cornell folks:

"As the school year begins and anticipation mounts for the upcoming cross country season, the United States Track and Field and Cross Country Association released its annual pre-season Division I national cross country poll today and the coaches ranked the Cornell women #10 in the nation.

"This is the highest national ranking in [the] pre-season poll for the Big Red women since the poll began. Cornell was also ranked #2 in the Northeast Region, behind only 2012 national runner-up Providence.

"The Cornell women have won the past two Heps cross country titles, including a 1-2-3 finish with a victory margin of 60 points in 2012[,] and finished up the fall season last year with a 13th place finish at the NCAA Championships, the program's best result in 19 years. With four of the top five back, as well as nine different women who have contributed to the team's top seven during their career, the Big Red is excited for another competitive season."

http://cornellbigred.com/news/2013/8/27/WXC_0827131412.aspx

Yale's men's roster is up:

http://www.yalebulldogs.com/sports/m-xc/2013-14/roster

I think the Elis are going to be really interesting to follow this fall. Seems like a *lot* of upside there.

Also, did anyone else think that maybe the Cornell women's #10 ranking was a little higher than called for? I think averaging the preseason polls (from two different sources) and putting them around #16 might have been more realistic.

Cornell has trimmed its women's roster ( http://cornellbigred.com/roster.aspx?path=wcross& ). They still have a big team, but are down to 40 from last year's 50-plus (and the ~50 of this year's earlier roster).

Schedule up:

http://hepstrack.com/blog/2013/09/02/starting-off-the-cross-country-season/

I don't think they're listed on the HTC master schedule, but I'd have to think that Cornell also plans to be at VCP for the Regional qualifier...

I live in NYC but am completely confused about the Van Cortlandt situation. At one point I had thought the repair work was not going to be done until *next* year. Are the VCP repairs completed? Are the "real" courses now available for meets?

And, if so: why is Heps continuing to be held at Princeton? (Not that I mind the Saturday schedule--these athletes have *way* too many Friday meets nowadays.)

Ivyguy wrote:

Yale's men's roster is up:

http://www.yalebulldogs.com/sports/m-xc/2013-14/roster

I think the Elis are going to be really interesting to follow this fall. Seems like a *lot* of upside there.

Also, did anyone else think that maybe the Cornell women's #10 ranking was a little higher than called for? I think averaging the preseason polls (from two different sources) and putting them around #16 might have been more realistic.

I agree that this Yale roster is promising. Nussbaum, McGowan and Shirvell were 3 legs of the 4 x mile that went 16:20 at Penn Relays. Dooney ran 29:55 as a frosh. Recruit Randon ran 8:52 this past spring in the 2-mile, going out in 63 and 4:20 at the mile. Even pacing and he might have broken 8:50.

It's a fairly young team which may be more of a 2014 story, but the track credentials are there to have some low sticks this fall.

Looks like Princeton's rosters are set:

http://www.goprincetontigers.com/SportSelect.dbml?SPID=4272&SPSID=46893&DB_OEM_ID=10600

(women's roster--men's link above)

WOW what a crew P. Farrell brought in this year--IMHO the Tigers would be serious contenders at Heps xc if they only ran their frosh! The group is also going to seriously rearrange the t&f meet forecasts this year and (especially) next.

The Columbia schedule for the fall is up, and I'm mildly perplexed (

http://www.gocolumbialions.com/SportSelect.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=9600&SPID=3877&SPSID=43604

)

Sat, Sep 14 Stony Brook Invitational Stony Brook, N.Y.

Sat, Sep 28 Virginia/Panamora Farms Invitational Earlysville, Va.

Sat, Oct 05 Paul Short Invitational (Women Only) Bethlehem, Pa.

Fri, Oct 11 Metropolitan Championships Van Cortlandt Park

Fri, Oct 18 Wisconsin Adidas Invitational Madison, Wis.

Fri, Nov 01 Ivy League Championships Princeton, N.J.

Fri, Nov 15 NCAA Northeast Regional Championships Van Cortlandt Park

Fri, Nov 22 NCAA National Championships Terre Haute, Ind.

First, if I read this correctly, the Lions' men's squad will basically have two races before Heps. I assume the Stony Brook Inv is a "nothing" meet--maybe a shakeout race, or an audition for the rookies?--that the varsity would be unlikely to race (though they might do it as a tempo run); and CU generally runs its "C" squad at the Mets. So that leaves Virginia and Wisconsin as the "regular season" for Columbia's top men. Seems really abbreviated, but, hey, if it works...

Second, I'm virtually certain that Wisconsin, the Heps, and the NCAA championship are on Saturdays. Why does Columbia's schedule list Fridays for each?

kibitzer wrote:

I don't think they're listed on the HTC master schedule, but I'd have to think that Cornell also plans to be at VCP for the Regional qualifier...

I live in NYC but am completely confused about the Van Cortlandt situation. At one point I had thought the repair work was not going to be done until *next* year. Are the VCP repairs completed? Are the "real" courses now available for meets?

And, if so: why is Heps continuing to be held at Princeton? (Not that I mind the Saturday schedule--these athletes have *way* too many Friday meets nowadays.)

A majority of the Ivy coaches don't like VCP and voted to move it to Boston, since Harvard was unable to come through it was moved to Princeton. I assume that the majority would rather be at Princeton than return to VCP.

It's two weeks later, and I took another look at those Brown and Cornell (men's) rosters. Still very limited numbers of freshpersons.

At first I was going to make some comment about how people need to spend more time making recruiting calls. But now--tied in with the earlier posts about how most Ivy teams did not take full squads to outdoor Heps last spring--I'm starting to think in another direction.

(Most of) the Ivy xc and t&f teams *are* continually moving toward being nationally competitive. That means making "big" trips to face top competition, and *that* means spending a lot of $$$.

At outdoor Heps this year, a majority (I think?) of events included competitors who went on to garner all-American honors at the NCAA meet. I can see that, for most teams, Heps has ceased to be a "participation" meet--to the extent it ever was--and that paying to transport and house athletes who have no realistic chance to contribute to your team's score (this year, or in the future) is unattractive: it drains the funds that you'd use to get your top kids to the meets that they need, in order to sharpen their abilities to all-American level. And I'm pretty sure most/all teams have some limit on their travel funds.

I'm not necessarily lamenting this change. (Most other Ivy sports and their championships are not participation-oriented: only a limited number of kids can compete, and your recruiting is more oriented toward getting a few *great* kids, not a bunch of good ones.) I'm just observing what seems to be a shift in the culture. Though they're as suspect as any other stereotypes, I think it's accurate to say that some Ivy tf/xc teams historically were seen more as "development" programs, while others (maybe Harvard and Princeton, say) were typed as "prime beef" teams that brought in kids who were already great. But now, with even a classic "development" team like Cornell recruiting so many of the country's very best HS performers, perhaps *all* the Ivies are shifting to the "prime beef" emphasis, just so they can remain competitive.

If that's the case, perhaps we'll see a general trend in coming years: fewer (but higher-quality) frosh being recruited; smaller squads, in general and at the Heps in particular (not every team is even running twelve athletes at Heps xc!); and fewer (but more nationally-prominent) meets on the regular-season schedule. That likely could mean fewer dual/tri meets (a development I *do* lament); maybe it helps explain "kibitzer"'s observations about Columbia's limited meet schedule, too.

Ivyguy wrote:

Also, did anyone else think that maybe the Cornell women's #10 ranking was a little higher than called for? I think averaging the preseason polls (from two different sources) and putting them around #16 might have been more realistic.

Well, apparently LRC itself agrees with me! They've given the Big Red women a preseason ranking of #17.

Cornell hosted Army today. Course was a mess from recent rains, and the Gorge was unrunnable. They went to basically the same standby loops that they used two years ago for the same meet. Times don't mean much.

Army is looking for some good things from its squads this year, but has said that it'll be focused on end-of-season meets. Was mostly training through here, and Cornell romped on both sides. The CU women took the first 15 places, led by Sorna and Shearer. Taylor Spillane was #3--the only frosh in the top twelve or so. Several runners you'd expect to see in the top five or seven were well back or absent--not sure about illness/injury statuses.

I do know that the men deliberately kept their top five (or so) out of the race, but still won 19-40. Mark Tedder, a freshman, was the winner, with three teammates within a few seconds. Nonseniors filled the top seven.

When official results are available they'll be at

http://cornellbigred.com/index.aspx?path=wcross&tab=1

and

http://cornellbigred.com/index.aspx?path=mcross&tab=0

.

Penn was scheduled to run the Big Five meet today but I haven't seen any results yet. Anybody?

Penn looked really really well on both sides but the women seriously surprised me with their ability to stay I'm such a tight pack. The results are up on Lasalle's website currently. Obviously they won't dethrone Cornell and Villanova didn't race their top 5 on the women's side but Penn is my sleeper pick to surprise a whole lot of people this year.

Thanks for info. I'll go to the LaSalle site.

Here's a better link for the Cornell results:

http://cornellbigred.com/documents/2013/9/13/9-13-13_XC_Results.pdf

Pennnnnn wrote:

Penn looked really really well on both sides but the women seriously surprised me with their ability to stay [in] such a tight pack. . . . Obviously they won't dethrone Cornell and Villanova didn't race their top 5 on the women's side but Penn is my sleeper pick to surprise a whole lot of people this year.

Not a huge surprise though. Dolan has already shown his ability to recruit, and then to develop the recruits he gets. And it's much more common for females to contribute as frosh. Three of Penn's top seven in this meet, including their #1 and #3, are freshmen.

Like others, I might be surprised if Penn's women *didn't* finish in the top half at Heps. Even though that meet is going to be really, really competitive.

At their own invitational today, solid efforts against Syracuse by Dartmouth's men:

http://lancertiming.com/results/fall13/dartxcm.htm

And women:

http://lancertiming.com/results/fall13/dartxcw.htm

From the Ivy League, Brown also competed, but--based on the people who were running in this meet--was not at Dartmouth's level. NOTES:

1) Dartmouth's finished ten men before Brown's first; but...

2) Five of the top seven Brown men's finishers were freshmen!