jjjjjjjj wrote:
he says that he got it from the German tv station where it appeared. He would have signed a contract preventing him from putting it up on youtube or transferring it without permission. It's pretty incredible that they'd prevent this from being aired after all these years. Deanouk is a partisan, albeit a careful one, and would never admit that Ryun was better than his guys. Ryun did what he needed to win and get world records and that's why he only hammered part of the last lap when he was ready. 36.6 final 300m if that is real destroys any final 300 that I know if in big tactical races by probably 2 seconds or more. That indicates he could have done way under 3:30 with the right pacing and track.
Yes, I think there are too many people on here being unfair to said88.
He has put in the hours to look for it and the money to buy it, no one else has. If someone asked/told him not to put something on Youtube as a proviso for them letting him have it, then of course he isn't going to put it on there. I wouldn't either.
I don't know what the complaints are about his web site either. There are a long list of athletes who have seasonal stats available, thanks to his work. We should be thanking him for sharing this, not moaning.
You are wrong about Ryun's last 300 being 2 secs faster than any big tactical race.
Aouita is supposed to have run a last 300 in 36.1 in a 3:34 race in Italy in 1984. Haven't seen it and again I am sceptical.
Gonzales ran a faster last 400m (50.0) in winning the 87 European Cup in 87.
His last 300m was 36.7, last 200m 24.7 (faster than Ryun's corresponding 24.8) and last 100 in 12.6. So he ran that 200m stretch between 300 and 100 out in 24.1. That's comparable finishing speed to what Ryun produced. Yes it was a slower overall time of 3:45, but he must have lost 2 to 3 secs through running wide on bends and lack of drafting. It's more like a 3:42. The copy I have doesn't show the finish line with 2 laps to go, so an exact last 800 is not known (unless anyone can be bothered to look for it in AW or somewhere) but his last 700 was 1:36, which is 1:49.7 pace for 800.
While I don't think that Gonzales's run is as good as Ryun's, whose finish time was a good 4-5 secs faster overall, it does show that in the right sort of race, some amazing splits can be achieved by more than one runner. Now I wouldn't put Gonzales in the same league as Aouita, Cram or Coe in his era, yet in a single race he produced a 200m stretch of 24.1 on the last lap of a big race, a 300m of 36.7, just 0.1 slower than Ryun and a faster last lap. Now if he can manage this, surely a peak Coe, Morceli Ovett, etc, must have been capable of faster in a similar type of race?
Cacho also ran the same last lap as Ryun did, 50.5 in his Barcelona win in 3:40.1. And while this is a couple of seconds slower than Ryun's winning time, it was an Olympic final, so it came after 2 rounds. Cacho's last 300 was also within a second of Ryun's, with 37.4, and his last 200 was only 0.4 slower at 25.2. And Cacho's last 800 was 2 secs faster than Ryun's corresponding split, with 1:48.5.
If you look at Coe's European 1500 in 86, he ran every bend wide, all but the last one entirely in lane 2. That means he ran at least 1524m in 3:41.6. This is equivalent to a 3:38.1 1500 and more like a 3:37 with drafting he didn't receive for at least 400m of the race before the bell.
He actually ran the last 800 in 1:49.2, 400 in 51.0, 300 in 37.8 and 200 in 25.2. But if you calculate for not running an extra 13m over the last 2 laps, you get something approaching 1:47.4, 50.3, 37.6 & 25.0 in a 3:37.
Again, comparable to Ryun's 1:50.5, 50.5, 36.6 & 24.8 in a 3:38
Morceli ran as fast as Ryun's last lap in winning the World Champs in 3:34.2 in 1993. His last 800 was 1:49.4 ( a second faster than Ryun), 400 was 50.6, 300 was 37.8 & 200 in 25.4.
Or to put it another way, Morceli's last 800m, split into 500 and 300m sections, was 1:11.6/37.8 and Ryun's was 1:13.9/36.6. To me they are very comparable splits in terms of impressiveness, the only difference being that Morceli's overall time was 4 secs faster. If Ryun's 500m segment from 800 m had been 2 secs faster, do you really think he'd have still run 36.6 for the last 300m? Of course not. If Ryun had run it on synthetic, then their last 800m would have been pretty much the same.
So as you can see, Ryun's last 300m was not 2 seconds or more faster than any other big tactical race. There are several examples of others running within a second of that split, some with faster overall last laps and usually faster overall last 800m.
I would agree that Ryun's last 300m is the most impressive stat I've heard of in a 1500m (unless the Aouita stat of 36.14 in a 3:34 is indeed true), but there are other comparable performances where someone's last 400 or 800 or 200 or 100 have been faster or more impressive than Ryun's corresponding split in that Dusseldorf race. Why should a last 300 split be more important in assessing an athlete's standing than a last 400 or 100 or whatever else?
As for running under 3:30, I'm inclined to agree that he was capable of this, based on what said88 has seen and other stats from races Ryun has run. In fact I've always believed Ryun could have run around 3:30 on synthetic in his peak 67 form, and said88's revelation of having seen the race now strongly suggests that sub 3:30 was possible in 1967. But to use the Dusseldorf split (or indeed any of Ryun's races) as evidence he was capable of 3:24 is just plain silly.