Bolt's not on drugs, he's always been great (with videos when he was young)

If you think the Jamaicans are dirty, why does Bolt need to go to a German doctor? Shouldn't he be perfectly capable of doping on his home turf?

Again, your argument rests on an unwarranted assumption: that he doesn't juice BOTH at home AND in Germany.

But let's assume for a second that your assumption is correct. One answer could be that Wohlfahrt is well-known and famous, and would have a lot to lose by breaching the required doctor-patient confidentiality and potentially losing his license, at least for a period of time, while definitely losing any appeal he now has to those seeking discretion.

Less-well-known and less-well-paid guys somewhere in Jamaica could be bought off by BOTH sides, and most certainly would sell out Bolt for some good coin. Not that stuff isn't available there, but right now it is probably controlled by guys who are profiting handsomely from the entire enterprise, and who have some secondary reason such as national pride or club legacy for not coming clean.

Also, maybe Wohlfahrt actually knows something as a doctor, and is able to administer better, using a better mix, better measurement, better monitoring, and high-quality pharmaceutical-grade compounds, especially if he has access, which he most certainly does, to advanced diagnostic and laboratory facilities.

Consider that maybe Bolt was juicing all along, and it wasn't going well, so before the big dance he had to go to somebody who actually knew what he was doing--to Wohlfahrt.

But remember, this is all hot air, because you have advanced no reason to believe that your assumption is correct in the first place, and that he couldn't have been doping BOTH at home AND in Germany. I responded as a courtesy only, not because your post was compelling.

llemux wrote:

Fact: Jamaica is dominating the sprints because US isn't doping as much as before.

Hit the nail on the head. They don't realize how upside down they are in their reasoning. What else can you expect from a nation traumatized by drug cheats?

Love the incessant posting and analysis of times which supposedly show gains only possible by the use of PEDs. These dufuses believe sprinters run at their max capability each time the gun goes off. I can show Bolt's massive improvement from one day to the next during the olympics. Why don't they compare the times he ran during trials compared to the finals?

They're a sad bunch of losers sitting on the sidelines whining their asses off about Jamaica being on drugs. How the F does a nation of 300 million with advanced pharma capabilities let a tiny nation own them?

Simple answer: The USA doesn't have the talent to do anything about it. Even if they doped their best sprinter till his eyes watered, Usain would still smoke him and showboat towards the finish line. And that my friend, is what frustrates them.

L O L...could not have expressed it better

Whaaat? wrote:

llemux wrote:

Fact: Jamaica is dominating the sprints because US isn't doping as much as before.

I've always said the same thing as llemux above. Once you remove the drug component (thanks, Balco), the country that focuses on T&F will emerge victorious.

Here is some simple proof. Even the most hardened dopemeisters (in the accusatory sense), will agree that T&F on a junior level is by far and wide, a clean sport.

Guess what... without the doping component, Jamaica historically wins more than half the medals in the Penn Relays. If you take a look at the roster... you will see that Jamaica constitutes just a small percentage of the participants.

So on a senior level, what transpired once the USA was forced to drastically reduce doping? Of course, the same result as the Penn Relays! Jamaica kicks ass! How can one argue with such evidence?

Jamaica should have been winning all along and a logial question during the doping sprees should have been... WHY are they behind the USA?

yo have to admit there is something new in water

when comes to sprints .beyond logic

and it really is that good .

we have our first east african sprinter not just

breaking 10 but 9.90

we have lemaitre and with a distinct lack of musculature .

we have some guy from cayman islands just breaking 10 secs.

and what is population of the place again .

we have ryan bailey consistantly breaking 10 and 9.90 seconds

and is 6'4'' and 100 kg .

you have 5,6 high class sprinters coming out of many

carribean islands .

and all within the last 2 years .

can someone tell me how tall is adam gemili

wiki

it says 5' 5''

that cant be true ,at least looks the same

as average sprinter of 5' 8'' or so

If Bolt's on drugs, obviously Tyson Gay must be too?.

No other white athlete can touch Lemaitre's time, he must be popping too.

But IMO there is faulty logic for people who accuse Bolt of being on drugs, in that, not every sprinter is following a universal/set training/conditioning/dietary program etc. There all different & done at different volumes.

"Glen Mills has been coaching since the 70s. What did he learn in 2007 that suddenly his athletes regularly dropped .5 seconds off their 200?".

Who knows, who cares. It's not forced to be doping. Mills or Bolt himself may have discovered some new idea, you can imitate or innovate, what Mills is obviously doing is innovating.

i havea bigjohnson wrote: "We have Lemaitre and with a distinct lack of musculature."

"Contrary to what many believe about running muscles, the energy from the push comes from the tendons and not from active contractions of the muscles."

"It is becoming increasingly apparent that springy tendons are a big part of what makes us go".

"I did some digging a while back, and found some then-recent research showing that tendons essentially never gets stronger than its associated muscle as a result of strength training. But what I do know is that muscle sometimes can (and does) overpower tendons. Muscles initiate movement, but also can inhibit it".

Hahah you're such an idiot. Basically most of the people posting here are idiots. Especially the obvious Jamaicans posting here supporting Bolt.

Sprint Geezer's points have all been very good, very valid assumptions. I like Yohan Blake though, and really refuse to believe that he's doping. I remember him running way back in Penn Relays against Bryshon Nellum on the 4x400 anchor. He certainly has a lot of stamina to run a 45 split in high school.

But back to my point.... bigger muscles are able to exert more force because the tendons get stronger. Who the f*** are you quoting saying tendons dont get stronger?

You must be remembering what you know about steroids. Taking roids makes the muscles bigger but the tendons lag in their growth.

Actually, bigger muscles allow you to overcome inertia in the start easier thus allowing you to have an illusion of having more speed endurance the last 50meters. Case in point.... Ben Johnson.

Yeah very good point Bodymaster.

It makes you wonder why Ronnie Coleman & Andy Bolton aren't sprint athletes.

LMFAO.

How is Rushida obviously clean? You can't do any eyeball test on middle distance runners to get a clue who is doping. He looks like is on another planet with another gear on a world class field with probable PED users in the field that alone should raise eyebrows.

Who is this East African runner who broke 9.9X? I do agree that new breed of PED's are out there as all of sudden ethnic/racial groups that traditionally have never had world class sprinters are producing faster runners. I have said if you see anything more than 1 or 2 other Lemaitres something not Kosher is happening.

It's obviously the new breed of PED's, there is nothing else imaginable it could be.

I'm off to the gym to get MASSIVE

Whaat--

"Why don't they compare the times he ran during trials compared to the finals?"

I did.

"Simple answer: The USA doesn't have the talent to do anything about it."

Just on a statistical basis, yes they do. Whether or not that talent actually participates in the 100m is another question.

People lament that talent drains to football, but what they forget is that very fast footballers most often also run track, and even if they don't actually compete, they train with the sprint crew or under the same trainers/coaches. I know, because I used to train alongside NFL prospects, and guys in NFL Europe.

The football guys all hold out hope that they will get a good draft spot, and even if they get a crap draft spot, they hold out hope for years that they will get a good NFL contract. Holding out this hope often takes them beyond the age that has heretofore been believed to have been their best sprinting years.

So there is no question that historically, football has drained some good sprinting talent in the USA--but, relative to Jamaica, there is still plenty of talent left that is interested in sprinting.

Also, there is a difference between really fast guys, and truly elite sprinters. Many of the football guys who are believed to be possibly elite sprinters, aren't, and those who actually are, tend to sprint. Everybody knows who they are. The guys who don't, really don't have elite potential. There are plenty of college footballers sprinting in the NCAA, just look at the distribution of times and you will understand what I'm talking about.

So the draining of sprinting talent to football isn't as great as it would first sound, because the really good guys put up college times anyway. For sure, there is some drain, but the actual number of guys is very limited.

What about basketball, the only other legitimate t&f drain? There we have a problem, especially in the case of long sprinters. Basketballers in my experience don't care about sprinting either before or after college, and sprinting doesn't form a core part of their training as it does for some footballers. So there is a legitimate drain here.

And there are sure a lot of US college basketballers in that 6'2"-6'6" range, that contains greats like Bolt, Powell, Lewis. So there is yet more drain.

It's anybody's guess if, after these drains, there is a larger talent pool, of the same potential quality, in the USA than in Jamaica. Considering that we are talking often about excellent talent getting drained off, it's entirely possible that the US pool is significantly depleted.

Although that is only suggestive, I can see how you could have a point, and in the abstract, it is a good point.

However, let's bring this back to reality from the abstract, because even if true, it doesn't tell the whole story.

EVEN IF Jamaica had a larger talent pool than the USA, and EVEN IF it was highly developed, that WOULD NOT EXPLAIN a number of phenomena, including but not limited to:

1) rapid lowering of career times by current Jamaicans

2) WR's that are huge historical outliers

3) Jamaican superiority vs. the entire ROW including the USA

4) statistically anomalous rapid lowering of times in-season by Jamaicans

etc. There are more things it doesn't account for, but that list is long enough right now.

Your answer is not "simple", as you suggest, but is instead "simplistic".

You have not even come close to explaining phenomena that many posters have identified, and your post is therefore not at all compelling, or even interesting.

"EVEN IF Jamaica had a larger talent pool than the USA, and EVEN IF it was highly developed, that WOULD NOT EXPLAIN a number of phenomena, including but not limited to:

1) Rapid lowering of career times by current Jamaicans."

Can you name them all?, backed up with time differentials?.

Usain Bolt.

Yohan Blake.

Warren Weir.

^ Those can be pretty easily explained. There from the SAME w/ the same coach with access to the same knowledge. Training is not static. New methods come out that build on old methods. They call it innovation.

If you can't put a case together other than the athletes that originate from the SAME CLUB, the SAME CLUB, you have been debunked.

Geezer, my post may not have been "compelling or even interesting" but it somehow elicited the longest response of the thread from you.

Listen, there is a big difference between potential talent - as in the kind that attracts the attention of football scouts and tangible ability - that which is forged by training and dedication to T&F from an early age. No one would argue that the USA has a larger pool of "talent" to choose from. You are in fact, supporting my point that Jamaica's focus on track & field develops athletes such as the ones you see dominating now. You know, the same ones you're accusing of doping.

With regard to "rapid lowering of career times by Jamaicans" and your other such arguments, I say you're reaching in your arguments.

Your speculations on widespread doping at the highest level are no more correct than were your in-depth analysis of how the 100m race would unfold. Sprinters like Bolt don't run 100% each time they run a race and that is the fact that constantly escapes you. There are too many factors involved for you to establish a baseline on which to fudge your numbers. The main factor is the mental aspect - as in intent. Bolt, of all people, is probably the hardest to predict/establish baselines on. This is based on the fact that he can liberally choose whether he is going to go for a world record or simply run to win a race. The closest you can come to establishing a baseline is 9.58 and he hasn't been able to run that since.

I see that you chose to harp on the USA's talent pool argument, while ignoring my post regarding the Penn Relays. I can see why, as this reduces your constant doping assertions to trash talk. The fact is that American dominance waned as rapidly as Jamaica's rose... right after the great equalizer - Balco.

Let me say something about drug testing, its not as clean cut as everyone thinks. Yes there is more testing in Europe and the United States, yes there is less in Jamaica and Africa, and yes athletes can use havens to escape too and not be tested.

However Bolt being in Europe and not competing does not mean he isn't avoiding drug testers, he still is. Most drug testing takes place during the season and most of it near the big meets in Asia, Europe, and the U.S. So WADA is not going to send a drug tester to hunt down Bolt when that drug tester and his resources could be testing 20 other athletes.

Do you have any evidence to back the claim that there are more test in Europe than in America?

This is impossible to know and last time I checked the USADA release the number of tests done on any athletes. There is not such thing as an European anti-doping agency. In Europe the standard is NOT the same in every countries.In Britain for example, they release the names of positive athletes but if I want to know how many times Dwain Chambers has been OOC tested by UKAD, I can't (forgive me if I'm wrong), If I want to check for Tyson Gay, however I can enter his name on the USADA database. And Apparently Britain is held in high standard in what's concerning anti-doping...

BTW, the German doctor who looks after Bolt is well known.

He is the current doctor of Bayern Munich (and the German soccer national team), one of Europe most powerful soccer club.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

Again, your argument rests on an unwarranted assumption

Your entire reasoning rests on nothing but assumption.

Born from a pathological resentment that someone can be so good.