If he was only popped from some legitimately prescribed trt at a low dosage that just brings him to normal, I agree the convo would be a bit different.
That's the big problem. People think trt is bringing them back to normal. But it's not. Normal for a 72 year old is different than normal for a 40 year old. If you're trying to get back to your old normal, you're actually going above what's normal for your current age.
Well, yes, I agree. BUT what about the 70 year old who's currently below normal for a 70 year old but who's started taking something trying to get to what's normal for a 70 year old? And the idea of what's normal for anyone of any age is going to get pretty murky if you're trying to get specific standards. We have lots of 70 year olds running marathons. What's a normal performance for those folks? One could argue that being able to train for and run a marathon in any time is not normal for a 70 plus year old. I think it's a giant rabbit hole. Well maybe "giant rabbit hole is an oxymoron". But if you're 70 or more and find yourself struggling to do things with your grandkids, help around the house, go to crowded events like concerts, MLB games, etc., and run, taking something that will make it easier or possible to do the first four things will probably help you run or run better as well. Someone suggested not paying much attention to doped runners in the upper age groups at local races but testing top finishers at championship events. It's not a perfect solution but it may be the most practical one.
This thread makes me realize that the viewership of this site is a LOT older than I thought it was.
Also, whats with the people who beat their chests about not taking caffeine, alcohol, nicotine, vitamins, etc...? Those things arent illegal. Its not like thats something to get on your moral high horse about. BIG difference between those things and PEDs.
Just my opinion, just by themselves the bulging veins do not necessarily indicate PED use. I have 'rope' veins and am close to 70. It is more the muscle bulk that doesn't look right.
I am sure there a genetic outliers, but there is a another 60+ age grouper from the West Coast that has an eerily similar body structure to Qualls that has been making the podium the both the indoor track and Masters outdoor events leading up to this year's National Outdoor Masters Championships this July 18-21).
Currently, he is entered in two mid distance events. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he 'suddenly' has an injury and decides not to compete. (yep, looking at you Mr. 2:27 and 5:10 seed time). If he does compete and podiums like indoors, he may be a great candidate to test as well.
Note, I am not using my registered name because frankly, he is smart enough to figure out who I am and could kick my slightly slower behind half way around the track.
I am using my registered name. Qualls has kept me off the podium twice in the 70-74s, and pushed two of my team mates downward on the podium a couple of times. It's sad to see someone in my age group so obsessed with winning and/or recognition that he flagrantly cheats like that.
The 2:27/5:10 person you libeled has been my team mate for 15 years, and I am reasonably certain has never even considered using drugs (not to mention he probably couldn't afford them). He has adopted a training approach that most of us masters distance runners don't try. A very large part of his training is weight work and running stairs. He was a very good 10k runner when he was younger, but has really focused on 800/1500 the last few years, and his strength training seems to work for him. When you see him at Nationals you might introduce yourself and ask him about his training, rather than being an anonymous message board douche defaming someone because of the way he looks.
Thanks for sharing. I did not read the whole thread and maybe others have also shared.
I am impressed with people in their 70s (and 80s) who are still training and competing.
However, I think that it’s unfortunate that there is such a taboo about PEDs for older people. I, myself, an old guy would not take PEDs because of that.
My son thinks that I’m crazy. Maybe he’s right. If it can improve your quality of life, why don’t you use it? He said that there is no way that I can fully replenish with food alone anymore. He’s right.
I perhaps think that PEDs should be tolerated for the older categories (65 and over? 70 and over? 75 and over?). The goal here is to keep active and to maintain your quality of life after all. Competition only gives you an objective/motivation to keep active.
Since you are there already. What do you think? What is your perspective?
That's no excuse not to try. Get out there and give it a go.
seriously. Living well is the best revenge. Don't let other people dictate your life.
Ridiculous.
To run in a race with others is to integrate with them. By choosing not to do so, I am dictating my own life.
I first realized this masters crap when I ran one of our local meets. Casually training, I had always been top-10. I'm not sure what standing exactly, because I didn't care; someone else told me about my ranking.
Then while global top-10 in my age group and still competitive at local all-comers, all of a sudden in one meet these two guys show up, who were in the bracket above me. I had never seen them before, nor even heard of them. I think one of them was a cop or fireman, the other guy just a straight up speed addict. They both beat me in the 200.
Right then and there I realized that it was all bullcrap at that age.
And then a big gun either in my age group or above got busted and banned. Absolutely incredible.
And then I was in Europe and talked to a bunch of guys who saw me doing a workout at a track. They were OPEN about it, because every one of them just automatically thought that I was using, too. A few of them were globally-ranked, apparently.
Now I run and train by myself, at a college facility. Masters leave me alone, and I leave them alone. I do race against kids occasionally, and it is great to see when they succeed, one of them will be in Paris, was with him when he was rising up the ranks.
Assume everyone's clean? Absolutely not. There is a selection effect in track, at least in the sprints. What do I mean by that? I mean that sprinting is incredibly hard, both in terms of effort, and on the body in particular. By the time you are 50+, there are really only 2 kinds of "competitors" left in the sprints: 1) the lucky, and 2) the juiced.
The lucky--like me--are few and far between. I am the ONLY one left who I know, who still trains sprints and weights hard, who is closing in on 60...and I have known a lot of people, including some at the very top. And even I am left doing this dance around potential injury, and getting a knee MRI in a week because one of them isn't perfect (probably a meniscus tear, imo).
The rest are juiced, plain and simple. The international guys were at least straight up about it. None of them cared, because literally every single one of them in that training group was using. It was a literal club. They told me flat-out that there is no way they could do what they were doing, at all, if not for the PED's, because they helped heal injuries fast. Mostly test, from what I understood, but a fair amount of it. And they were actively trying to solicit friends into the group, because they wanted them to feel as good as they did themselves.
I don't know what it's like in distance, I expect it might be a bit different--but here's a big difference between sprints and distance that I have seen, having done both: sprints is largely talent, distance less so. You can hugely improve your distance performance through diligence and work, which is what creates the temptation. Someone starts off clean, makes actual gains, and then runs up against a performance and/or injury wall. Then they have developed a sort of psychological dependency on the improvement, which forms a part of their self-construct.
They need to keep it going, so they use. I saw that in one guy here, now deceased--but he had the decency to not compete.
Another local guy who I ran with infrequently was one of the best in the world in his day (I can't remember which event, it was the 1500 or farther) back in the 70's, who got injured just before trials and never got to perform at the OG. He did some early masters stuff, and of course blew everyone away because he was still in shape--and he was immediately accused of using.
He never competed again. Curious what was going on, HE looked into it, and found that from what he could glean, there were more people using in masters than in open.
Yeah sure there is a handful of clean masters athletes on here, but at least in the sprints, that's not representative.
I have no need to hang around losers, even if there's one good guy in the bunch.
No, this isn't scientific, and no, there are no stats to support this--but that's not how I/we live our social lives. We make decisions based on available observations, attitudes, needs, desires, options, etc.
I don't now, and never will again, involve myself with official masters track. For me, it's now about health and recreation, and helping those younger than myself. I find camaraderie elsewhere.
Robert Qualls winning a 12k last fall on his hot streak. Photo courtesy Jason Timochko. "Everything is connected to everything else."__Barry Commoner, a biologist on Ecology By Ray GlierRobert Qualls’ 5k run in Atlanta had th...
But it is not just being young again—relatively—that has propelled Qualls back to the top of running. He is a scientist and he studies a scientist, the running sage Jack Daniels of Cortland, N.Y. who declares, “Impose the least stress that produces the maximum benefit.”
I guess one way to get a benefit without a lot of stress is an injection.
Sad to see this news for the others that he has stolen podiums from, but also I'm happy he was caught. Seeing that he is a scientist, it's pretty obvious this wasn't an accident (also based on the posts of others explaining 19-nortestosterone here), and he deserves all the shame he receives.
His blatant use of detectable PEDS indicates just how lack luster testing is , at least in the older age groups.
Objective suspected dopers list is easy to maintain.
Target the runners at the top who make and maintain improvements over 5 percent.
Quall's 20 years of data is a good example.
His abrupt performance improvements started in 2019.
Year followed by *best age graded score:
2004 79 2005 78 2006 82 2007 81 2008 no data 2009 80 2010 81 2011 76 2012 76 2013 76 2014 no data 2015 81 2016 74 2017 74 2018 76 2019 86 17 races over 80 percent 2020 no data 2021 78 only 3 races 2022 89 17 races over 80 with 8 over 85 and 5 over 88 percent 2023 91
Follow the Rankings View Rankings Recently Added Other Competition Results Recently Added Submit Results Meet the Athletes Age Grading Age Grading is an adjustment for a performance (time, height or distance) based on age so...
His blatant use of detectable PEDS indicates just how lack luster testing is , at least in the older age groups.
Objective suspected dopers list is easy to maintain.
Target the runners at the top who make and maintain improvements over 5 percent.
Quall's 20 years of data is a good example.
His abrupt performance improvements started in 2019.
Year followed by *best age graded score:
2004 79 2005 78 2006 82 2007 81 2008 no data 2009 80 2010 81 2011 76 2012 76 2013 76 2014 no data 2015 81 2016 74 2017 74 2018 76 2019 86 17 races over 80 percent 2020 no data 2021 78 only 3 races 2022 89 17 races over 80 with 8 over 85 and 5 over 88 percent 2023 91
Good lord. Nice work! I'm going to start doing this for some local area 60+ runners that I'm very suspicious of. For anyone who has been a consistent long time runner (e.g. multiple decades), one could expect fluctuations of a few percent from one year to the next, but sorry, nobody goes from consistent mid 70's/low 80's year after year to 90%+ clean. Not buying it.
Keep in mind - doing hormone replacement therapy (returning your base hormone levels to NORMAL not juicing) is completely legal in age group track.
FOR WOMEN but
NOT FOR MEN
What Qualls did is actual steroids - steroids are NOT returning your hormone levels to normal - they are using drugs to kick your competitors ass and collect medals and podium visits. Thats an EGO thing.
I got tested in my late 30s and found out I had the T levels of an 80 year old man. I took TRT for a few years then stopped because I got married and had kids and didnt want to spread the creams on my body to my family. I didnt die but I ballooned up to 240 pounds because I couldnt improve when I exercised and of course stupid diet choices - thats on me
I started taking TRT again years later when I got divorced and my kids moved out of the house. I was also having MUCH more serious health issues - mostly temp regulation stuff - I would inexplicably get freezing cold for no known reason and even wearing 2 pairs of sweats and 3 blankets I was literally shivering all night. That was eventually going to kill me down the road - or at least cut my life expectancy be a decade or two. Normalizing my testosterone levels instantly stopped all that.
No way was I going to destroy my health by NOT taking chemicals to replace what my body refuses to produce any more. Thats on the same level as a Type 1 diabetic refusing to take insulin.
I am going to race because I love running and its the only real way to prove to myself I am improving. I do races to see how fast I am - I care not at all if I am faster than some other old dude. I don't want or need to beat ANYBODY other than the guy in the mirror every morning. I care zero for medals or podiums just want to see my times come down as I train better and harder.
What I am NOT going to do is any USATF or WMA type championship events - I am going to do local or club road race type stuff and track stuff against almost exclusively younger dudes - I probably will also do a few state level senior olympic races with no intention of using my results at the national championship level. Most of the state level 'races' are actually time trials because only 1 or 2 guys actually show up each year. I am fine with that. If someone else isnt they can go F themselves :) If someone wants my medal or placing I could care less - they can have it - all I want is my time out there as a record of what I did.
The testosterone test I took to normalize my levels shows I am at 626 in a range of 200 to 900 something and I am fine with that - both health-wise and morality-wise. It's a NORMAL level and every FEMALE competitor out their has undoubtedly taken their own hormones to ensure their levels are normal as well. It just a massive double standard and utter hypocrisy that keeps old men from doing the same thing.
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
USADA announced today that Robert Qualls, of Reno, Nev., an athlete in the sport of track and field, has accepted a three-year period of ineligibility for an anti-doping rule violation after testing positive for multiple prohibited substances.
Qualls, 72, tested positive for amphetamine and 19-norandrosterone (19-NA), a metabolite of nandrolone (19-nortestosterone) and other 19-norsteroids as the result of a urine sample collected at the USA Track & Field Masters 5km Championships on February 24, 2024. Additionally, Qualls’s urine sample was analyzed using a specialized test known as Isotope Ratio Mass Spectrometry (IRMS), that unequivocally differentiates between anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS) naturally produced by the body and AAS of synthetic origin. The IRMS analysis was consistent with the exogenous origin of testosterone and/or its metabolites in Qualls’s sample. USADA was contracted by event organizers to conduct testing and results management for the event and collected Qualls’s sample in accordance with the WADA International Standard for Testing.
Bro it’s everyone in this sport. Track and field has been over since late 1990s. Everyone is is PEDS- it’s not a big deal when someone gets busted. If you ever ran fast enough to go to the Olympics you’d be in the know- and everyone in the know, knows just to smile and wave and take drugs and make money until you can’t anymore. Nobody ffffing cares if people take steroids- that’s a joke. Track is worse than football with the roids and it’s worse because it helps performance better.
if steroids/Epo was never used the mile world record would be around 3:53 and the 5k would be around 13:00. The times these guys are running is a joke and that even goes for Hocker running 3:30 in the 1500m
hocker is a nobody, no personality, Short, skinny, doped to the gills and he only runs 3:30……..anyways nobody cares, it’s hard to pretend to stay surprised at this point
Keep in mind - doing hormone replacement therapy (returning your base hormone levels to NORMAL not juicing) is completely legal in age group track.
FOR WOMEN but
NOT FOR MEN
What Qualls did is actual steroids - steroids are NOT returning your hormone levels to normal - they are using drugs to kick your competitors ass and collect medals and podium visits. Thats an EGO thing.
I got tested in my late 30s and found out I had the T levels of an 80 year old man. I took TRT for a few years then stopped because I got married and had kids and didnt want to spread the creams on my body to my family. I didnt die but I ballooned up to 240 pounds because I couldnt improve when I exercised and of course stupid diet choices - thats on me
I started taking TRT again years later when I got divorced and my kids moved out of the house. I was also having MUCH more serious health issues - mostly temp regulation stuff - I would inexplicably get freezing cold for no known reason and even wearing 2 pairs of sweats and 3 blankets I was literally shivering all night. That was eventually going to kill me down the road - or at least cut my life expectancy be a decade or two. Normalizing my testosterone levels instantly stopped all that.
No way was I going to destroy my health by NOT taking chemicals to replace what my body refuses to produce any more. Thats on the same level as a Type 1 diabetic refusing to take insulin.
I am going to race because I love running and its the only real way to prove to myself I am improving. I do races to see how fast I am - I care not at all if I am faster than some other old dude. I don't want or need to beat ANYBODY other than the guy in the mirror every morning. I care zero for medals or podiums just want to see my times come down as I train better and harder.
What I am NOT going to do is any USATF or WMA type championship events - I am going to do local or club road race type stuff and track stuff against almost exclusively younger dudes - I probably will also do a few state level senior olympic races with no intention of using my results at the national championship level. Most of the state level 'races' are actually time trials because only 1 or 2 guys actually show up each year. I am fine with that. If someone else isnt they can go F themselves :) If someone wants my medal or placing I could care less - they can have it - all I want is my time out there as a record of what I did.
The testosterone test I took to normalize my levels shows I am at 626 in a range of 200 to 900 something and I am fine with that - both health-wise and morality-wise. It's a NORMAL level and every FEMALE competitor out their has undoubtedly taken their own hormones to ensure their levels are normal as well. It just a massive double standard and utter hypocrisy that keeps old men from doing the same thing.
Fake post. Also nobody cares- also I’m the only one who makes up fake stories about TRT and running. So go away you copy cat. All the steroid posts are mine- you and bunch of college idiots keep copying my comments. I’ve been here for 10 years and started posting about TRT last year and now you literally post just like I did. It’s lame bro. Figure out a new website to troll. I’m better than you. I can get 3 top threads Per week trending if I want- I know what gets the runners going- you don’t. Your post is mediocre at best
Keep in mind - doing hormone replacement therapy (returning your base hormone levels to NORMAL not juicing) is completely legal in age group track.
FOR WOMEN but
NOT FOR MEN
What Qualls did is actual steroids - steroids are NOT returning your hormone levels to normal - they are using drugs to kick your competitors ass and collect medals and podium visits. Thats an EGO thing.
I got tested in my late 30s and found out I had the T levels of an 80 year old man. I took TRT for a few years then stopped because I got married and had kids and didnt want to spread the creams on my body to my family. I didnt die but I ballooned up to 240 pounds because I couldnt improve when I exercised and of course stupid diet choices - thats on me
I started taking TRT again years later when I got divorced and my kids moved out of the house. I was also having MUCH more serious health issues - mostly temp regulation stuff - I would inexplicably get freezing cold for no known reason and even wearing 2 pairs of sweats and 3 blankets I was literally shivering all night. That was eventually going to kill me down the road - or at least cut my life expectancy be a decade or two. Normalizing my testosterone levels instantly stopped all that.
No way was I going to destroy my health by NOT taking chemicals to replace what my body refuses to produce any more. Thats on the same level as a Type 1 diabetic refusing to take insulin.
I am going to race because I love running and its the only real way to prove to myself I am improving. I do races to see how fast I am - I care not at all if I am faster than some other old dude. I don't want or need to beat ANYBODY other than the guy in the mirror every morning. I care zero for medals or podiums just want to see my times come down as I train better and harder.
What I am NOT going to do is any USATF or WMA type championship events - I am going to do local or club road race type stuff and track stuff against almost exclusively younger dudes - I probably will also do a few state level senior olympic races with no intention of using my results at the national championship level. Most of the state level 'races' are actually time trials because only 1 or 2 guys actually show up each year. I am fine with that. If someone else isnt they can go F themselves :) If someone wants my medal or placing I could care less - they can have it - all I want is my time out there as a record of what I did.
The testosterone test I took to normalize my levels shows I am at 626 in a range of 200 to 900 something and I am fine with that - both health-wise and morality-wise. It's a NORMAL level and every FEMALE competitor out their has undoubtedly taken their own hormones to ensure their levels are normal as well. It just a massive double standard and utter hypocrisy that keeps old men from doing the same thing.
Fake post. Also nobody cares- also I’m the only one who makes up fake stories about TRT and running. So go away you copy cat. All the steroid posts are mine- you and bunch of college idiots keep copying my comments. I’ve been here for 10 years and started posting about TRT last year and now you literally post just like I did. It’s lame bro. Figure out a new website to troll. I’m better than you. I can get 3 top threads Per week trending if I want- I know what gets the runners going- you don’t. Your post is mediocre at best
lazy copy cat
Bro you never run fast and your whole story is a lie. I would know as you copy my posts about taking steroids and using them to win “local fun runs” and make money. It’s a post made to annoy people who try hard to run fast as you kamgine them imagining something guy taking TRT and running a slow 14:xx 5k somewhere. Likely you can’t break a 6min mile and are a loser, not married, and live with your dad cuz he’s divorced.
stop copying me. It’s lame. I’m the craziest random posted on this website- I am the anonymous Prince of Letsrun. I’ve made the best threads better, I’ve got the Chad Noelle thread going, the MdMa and tan 1:47 at Boston going and countless sex/marriage posts on the front page.
im the Prince of letsrun. You are a peasant. You’re post was too real like and boring- people are stupid and lazy and bored- they want to believe crazy stuff- make your posts crazier and they trend better. If you were here in 2014 you’d understand why I’m a legend. Goodbye
All age groups are pooled for age grading and the prize money goes $500, $400, $300, $200, $100. So a 70 year old can win up $600 for a national race if they win their age group and overall age grade. Enough for airfare or few meals, depending on the take.
Qualls won his age group 6-8 times in a row over the past couple of years and placed top 5 in age grading several times. Plus he likely got some USATF reimbursement for world medals. You're not talking about a lot of money, but for someone traveling to different places in the country for a couple of days or overseas it all helps. Good to hear he got caught.
I am using my registered name. Qualls has kept me off the podium twice in the 70-74s, and pushed two of my team mates downward on the podium a couple of times. It's sad to see someone in my age group so obsessed with winning and/or recognition that he flagrantly cheats like that.
The 2:27/5:10 person you libeled has been my team mate for 15 years, and I am reasonably certain has never even considered using drugs (not to mention he probably couldn't afford them). He has adopted a training approach that most of us masters distance runners don't try. A very large part of his training is weight work and running stairs. He was a very good 10k runner when he was younger, but has really focused on 800/1500 the last few years, and his strength training seems to work for him. When you see him at Nationals you might introduce yourself and ask him about his training, rather than being an anonymous message board douche defaming someone because of the way he looks.
Thanks for sharing. I did not read the whole thread and maybe others have also shared.
I am impressed with people in their 70s (and 80s) who are still training and competing.
However, I think that it’s unfortunate that there is such a taboo about PEDs for older people. I, myself, an old guy would not take PEDs because of that.
My son thinks that I’m crazy. Maybe he’s right. If it can improve your quality of life, why don’t you use it? He said that there is no way that I can fully replenish with food alone anymore. He’s right.
I perhaps think that PEDs should be tolerated for the older categories (65 and over? 70 and over? 75 and over?). The goal here is to keep active and to maintain your quality of life after all. Competition only gives you an objective/motivation to keep active.
Since you are there already. What do you think? What is your perspective?
At my age (74) you always start statements about training with "right now" or "if I can stay injury-free" I don't need to, or don't choose to take any banned drugs to improve my quality of life. I love training and I like racing because it's an opportunity to find the physical and mental limits I can push myself to. USATF sanctioned races provide a level playing field for us to test ourselves against our peers. I certainly don't believe that everyone I line up against is not using PEDS, but I believe that probably 95% of my competition also is competing clean. If I felt that TRT, HGH, EPO or some other PED was necessary for the quality of life I try to have, then I would quit racing USATF and find a competitive venue where I could participate without violating the rules. Also, I have a wife, children and grandchildren that I try to be an example of ethical and honorable behavior for. They would be disappointed if I was caught cheating, and it will never be worth damaging their opinion of me for something that is simply a recreational choice for me.
