I feel like nobody talks about this. Every single year we see all these amazing HS phenoms and everybody hypes up their collegiate careers, only for pretty much the exact opposite to happen
95% of them peak in HS and then just become an average Joe in college, if they even compete at all
Maybe people just need to lower their expectations. They are still 18-19 after all. They have other things to worry about
Would rather direct my attention to a mediocre HS runner who became elite throughout his college training where it truly matters.
Same goes to all these freshman/sophomores who are running absurd times (under the assumption they're not on drugs) as they too don't get any better after a year or two
Everybody keeps peaking at the wrong time. Stop it.
The Americans become annoying idiots on this site, recycling hallucinations about their chosen [white] Norwegian runner and, recently, suggesting that they're ready to switch sides to Scotland (to another white male runner) should the Messiah fall, as well as reaching for the silliest reasons (previously; they're more comfortable saying why they don't like black people lately) to cheer for white European women over darker Americans.
Naw, I was a big fan of Tegla Laroupe and Fatuma Roba.
On the American side, I liked Olga Appell and Sylvia Mosqueda.
I also admired someone whom with I shared running space, but did not compete against (I am male) - Zoila Gomez.
An incredible discussion. All of the comments in some way are true for some athletes. I think the problem is we want to see athletes be successful, but that's not how life works. Greatness isn't promised to anyone. There are so many reasons why some high schoolers don't reach the top of the podium in college that we project for them. The causes are as numerous as the individuals. I think the role of the high school and college coach is an important one in helping talented kids make the transition to the next level. My h.s. coach told me he was leaving work for my college coach to do, so I didn't do outrageous workouts. When I got to college my coaches understood that as a 123 pound freshman, I couldn't handle the same workouts or racing load as my older teammates. As humans our interest change over time, and sometimes that means track stops being the most important thing in the world to us. Sometimes we picks the wrong school, sometimes we get injured, sometimes it stops being fun. As one who made it to the cover of T&FN, I guess you could say I made it. There are few rooms at the hotel of champions, and a lot of people trying to book a reservation.
An incredible discussion. All of the comments in some way are true for some athletes. I think the problem is we want to see athletes be successful, but that's not how life works. Greatness isn't promised to anyone. There are so many reasons why some high schoolers don't reach the top of the podium in college that we project for them. The causes are as numerous as the individuals. I think the role of the high school and college coach is an important one in helping talented kids make the transition to the next level. My h.s. coach told me he was leaving work for my college coach to do, so I didn't do outrageous workouts. When I got to college my coaches understood that as a 123 pound freshman, I couldn't handle the same workouts or racing load as my older teammates. As humans our interest change over time, and sometimes that means track stops being the most important thing in the world to us. Sometimes we picks the wrong school, sometimes we get injured, sometimes it stops being fun. As one who made it to the cover of T&FN, I guess you could say I made it. There are few rooms at the hotel of champions, and a lot of people trying to book a reservation.
Great comment. Sounds like you had a really good college coach who kept your specific needs in mind. From reading other comments, it seems like most college coaches just throw the slow kids in with the fast ones and see what sticks. If injury or burnout happen to the slower kids, oh well. If this is as common as everyone on this board says, it is a real problem and a little unethical. I don’t assume that it’s this way in every other sport. Why running?
One of my "rock star" moments was the day that I (as a very minor contributor to my track team) was walking through the infield at APU and heard the lady passing by say to someone else "I'm Jenny Spangler".
1) thinking you decide what is important and that your preferred timing is most important for everyone. To each him own.
2) stop believing the college system is good/ideal for developing talent. For distance runners it isn’t for most people. Most of our stars go through it simply because of lack of other options / peer and societal pressure. They succeed despite it not because of it.
1) thinking you decide what is important and that your preferred timing is most important for everyone. To each him own.
2) stop believing the college system is good/ideal for developing talent. For distance runners it isn’t for most people. Most of our stars go through it simply because of lack of other options / peer and societal pressure. They succeed despite it not because of it.
I suspect the collegiate system is brilliant for good runners that want to carry on competing, enjoy their time at college and be part of a team.
It’s not a necessary step for anyone that wants to be truly elite. There’s a lot to be said for simply buckling down during those formative years and training individually. Hard though. Damn hard.
That is a really profound point. College coaches should take notice. Who knows if they do however. Being self critical is difficult. But if that many kids are actually slower, clearly points to something that is happening, or not happening, in college.
This is why Nico Young's and to a slightly lesser extent Sahlman's almost immediate success is so impressive.
Brosnan never ran his athletes into the ground though, he never had them doing more than 60 miles a week, which is fine for a high schooler. So it shouldn't be too surprising that with training more they would improve.
I actually agree with you on Newbury park, but not because of the mileage. That’s just one variable of someone’s training. You can overtrain an athlete on 40 miles a week and undertrain an athlete on 80 miles a week. Volume of intensity and weekly allocation of training are more important variables.
There are definitely some athletes that do too much mileage too early but it’s just one variable. Letsrun has this dogmatic view that high mileage = burnout and low mileage = no burnout. I knew athletes I ran against who got burnt out off of 35 miles a week because they were doing 2 speed workouts a week in spikes close to all out. It’s more complex than just mileage numbers.
This is a pretty common phenomenon across sports in general, not just Track/XC.
How many 4 and 5 star recruits never *pop* in football? Basketball? Volleyball?
On the next level, how many College All Americans don't amount to anything in the pros?
I think about two local kids where I am at right now that graduated 6 years ago. One was a consensus 5 star guy in basketball as a freshmen. Won every individual award you could in the state, top 10 recruit in the country, when to a Power 5 school, did ok, left after one year, a late lottery pick, bounced around in the NBA and now is bumming around in the G League.
His friend, a relative no name in HS, graduated in the same class, was a 2/3 star football guy. Went D1, THEN grew into a national name at WR his senior year. 2nd rounder, and is a starter in the NFL.
People across the board mature physically and mentally at different times. How many valedictorians are working retail right now, or are middle management at some dead end job? Why did THEY get so hyped up in HS, go to a great school, and then vanish?
Observation from elite HS & youth programs (REAL/Niwot): they are low(ish) mileage, but high commitment, focused and very professional. The running mileage IS low, but time spent doing strength, mobility, speed, other movement and strength is high. And it’s damn close to year round. So you can have a 16 yo girl ‘only’ running 35 MPW, but running national class times. In the 90’s you stood around pretending to do some ‘toe touches’ for 10 min, did your 6 miles where you really ran 5 and threw rocks in a creek or something, maybe a couple strides, then went home. Now a 4 mile run is proceeded with 20 min of drills, 8 x 100m strides, then after a 20-30 min circuit, with a coach riding your ass the whole time. Then there’s this sense of effortless superiority - ‘we only run 4 miles per day, we are only here to have FUN!!’
This is a pretty common phenomenon across sports in general, not just Track/XC.
How many 4 and 5 star recruits never *pop* in football? Basketball? Volleyball?
On the next level, how many College All Americans don't amount to anything in the pros?
I think about two local kids where I am at right now that graduated 6 years ago. One was a consensus 5 star guy in basketball as a freshmen. Won every individual award you could in the state, top 10 recruit in the country, when to a Power 5 school, did ok, left after one year, a late lottery pick, bounced around in the NBA and now is bumming around in the G League.
His friend, a relative no name in HS, graduated in the same class, was a 2/3 star football guy. Went D1, THEN grew into a national name at WR his senior year. 2nd rounder, and is a starter in the NFL.
People across the board mature physically and mentally at different times. How many valedictorians are working retail right now, or are middle management at some dead end job? Why did THEY get so hyped up in HS, go to a great school, and then vanish?
A basketball 5* recruit will almost certainly be a 1st round pick and have decent success. Different for football
I feel like nobody talks about this. Every single year we see all these amazing HS phenoms and everybody hypes up their collegiate careers, only for pretty much the exact opposite to happen
95% of them peak in HS and then just become an average Joe in college, if they even compete at all
Maybe people just need to lower their expectations. They are still 18-19 after all. They have other things to worry about
Would rather direct my attention to a mediocre HS runner who became elite throughout his college training where it truly matters.
Same goes to all these freshman/sophomores who are running absurd times (under the assumption they're not on drugs) as they too don't get any better after a year or two
Everybody keeps peaking at the wrong time. Stop it.
No way to train adequately while also being a student.
The OP starts off with a faulty premise, which leaves for no room but a faulty conclusion.
The kids are doing alright.
IDK.
Every kid except for one from the 2023 CA 800m final ran slower this year in college
Check back in 4 years and lets see where they are. It's always taken a year or two to adjust to collegiate training - this is known and has always been the case.
The 5 star basketball guy has never had any success in the NBA besides his draft position. Never got off the bench for two bad teams, and is now kicking around in the g-league doing nothing.
Don't necessarily agree with the premise of this thread but I think the US HS/college system isn't always the best for developing runners & keeping them in the sport long term. Most big time programs operate in the same way. Do as many hard sessions as you can fit in, race as much as you can, try to score as many points as you can at conference meets, try to peak 3 times/year, etc. Some people handle it ok. Some people would do better with some more personalization & someone helping them develop in the short term but also leaving them room to grow into their mid to late 20s/early 30s.
I think good athletes get injured & are probably rushed back too soon & repeat that cycle until they can't take it anymore. There isn't a good reason for the # of phenoms that burn out & the # of collegiate runners who basically stop running the second they graduate.
Most athletes do get better in college, it's just that the competition gets much tougher in college giving the illusion that athletes who are placing worse are failing even though they are still technically running faster.
The elite kids “busting” is becoming less and less of a thing especially in the last 5-10 years.
Across the board kids are training harder in high school and the sport is approached in a more serious manner. Sure hidden gems pop in college but in general the talent is rising to the top.
those top kids are only going to 8-10 programs in the ncaa, all with great coaching and they continue to run fast.
The top Americans right now in college especially for the men were all awesome in high school. Parker Wolfe, Nico, the Harvard kid. All very good and got a whole lot better