This thread is about a Kenyan runner busted for Trimetazidine.
What else is the point of "Another Kenyan busted" thread, in a forum that encourages discussing doping, if not to talk about the unique details of his bust?
It seems fair to wonder "why so many athletes are being busted for "Trimetazidine"" now. If upvotes/downvotes are any indication, my post expressing my wonder currently has 26 upvotes/5 downvotes -- so it seems like some might also be wondering the same thing.
So only one Kenyan has been busted for doping? And you're going to prove their innocence? You miss the weekly despatches on Kenyan doping - one after another. You are the most deluded poster in the history of this site - and that's saying something.
So only one Kenyan has been busted for doping? And you're going to prove their innocence? You miss the weekly despatches on Kenyan doping - one after another. You are the most deluded poster in the history of this site - and that's saying something.
So only one Kenyan has been busted for doping? And you're going to prove their innocence? You miss the weekly despatches on Kenyan doping - one after another. You are the most deluded poster in the history of this site - and that's saying something.
You are obsessed with this word "only". I never said "only one Kenyan", and I'm never trying to "prove their innocence". Talk about diversion and delusion -- more self-projection. The "only" question I asked, to which you keep responding with non-responsive diversions, is about trimetazidine.
But sure, not only one Kenyan, but who knows, maybe one to two percent of those tested -- around the worldwide average. No way to tell really without more testing data.
WADA and the AIU have given us several reasons for increased testing/doping of Kenyans: e.g. exploitation by foreign agents and local doctors/chemists, and a lack of anti-doping education and diligence.
So, if you see a Kenyan runner for you he/she is guilty. Yet, you don't have any clue if from all Kenyan runners 5% are dopers or 20% or 70%?
Yes, it's obviously enough for you. The Realität? You don't care
You aren't very good at following an argument. I didn't say that every Kenyan runner I see I know to be guilty; I said the preponderance of doping in Kenya is such that I don't trust any of their top runners to be clean. They could be, but the chances are just as likely they aren't. If you can't understand that distinction then you are out of your depth in these discussions.
No argument from your side.
You have no idea how many Kenyans dope . Yet you see any Individual Kenyan runner as a doper.
You aren't very good at following an argument. I didn't say that every Kenyan runner I see I know to be guilty; I said the preponderance of doping in Kenya is such that I don't trust any of their top runners to be clean. They could be, but the chances are just as likely they aren't. If you can't understand that distinction then you are out of your depth in these discussions.
No argument from your side.
You have no idea how many Kenyans dope . Yet you see any Individual Kenyan runner as a doper.
Yes, I do have an idea how many Kenyans dope. When one is busted every week I would say most. To think otherwise is to ignore what stares you in the face. Their sport is dirty to the core.
Where did he say only one Kenyan has been busted for doping? You are making things up.
From rekrunner:
"This thread is about a Kenyan runner busted for Trimetazidine."
No, it isn't. It is about yet another dirty Kenyan athlete in an unending series of busted cheats. Their doping is out of control. It isn't about one athlete but most of them.
We could just change the country from Kenya to Russia to see how fatuous rekrunner's arguments are that seek to minimise doping, as though we are just confined to discussing one athlete taking just one of many drug options. There is a horde of doping but he sees only one solitary doper.
Where did he say only one Kenyan has been busted for doping? You are making things up.
From rekrunner:
"This thread is about a Kenyan runner busted for Trimetazidine."
No, it isn't. It is about yet another dirty Kenyan athlete in an unending series of busted cheats. Their doping is out of control. It isn't about one athlete but most of them.
I will use simple words, maybe then you will understand. See first post on thread. Nothing but a link that says: "Kenyan marathoner Kemei Kiprono provisionally suspended by AIU". "This thread is about a Kenyan runner busted for Trimetazidine." is correct.
"This thread is about a Kenyan runner busted for Trimetazidine."
No, it isn't. It is about yet another dirty Kenyan athlete in an unending series of busted cheats. Their doping is out of control. It isn't about one athlete but most of them.
I will use simple words, maybe then you will understand. See first post on thread. Nothing but a link that says: "Kenyan marathoner Kemei Kiprono provisionally suspended by AIU". "This thread is about a Kenyan runner busted for Trimetazidine." is correct.
The thread title is "another Kenyan busted". It means one of many. I told you you can't read.
"This thread is about a Kenyan runner busted for Trimetazidine."
No, it isn't. It is about yet another dirty Kenyan athlete in an unending series of busted cheats. Their doping is out of control. It isn't about one athlete but most of them.
I will use simple words, maybe then you will understand. See first post on thread. Nothing but a link that says: "Kenyan marathoner Kemei Kiprono provisionally suspended by AIU". "This thread is about a Kenyan runner busted for Trimetazidine." is correct.
Regardless how simple the words are you use, he will not understand. Partly maybe because of his age and his limited thinking ability. But mostly because he has no interest to "understand". He has long long ago finished his thinking process in this issue, his conclusion is fixed. NOTHING can change this.
I will use simple words, maybe then you will understand. See first post on thread. Nothing but a link that says: "Kenyan marathoner Kemei Kiprono provisionally suspended by AIU". "This thread is about a Kenyan runner busted for Trimetazidine." is correct.
The thread title is "another Kenyan busted". It means one of many. I told you you can't read.
The thread title is "another Kenyan busted". And that Kenyan is one individual. One Kenyan. Kemei Kiprono. I told you you can't read. You always throw your toys out of the pram when faced with facts. So infantile.
Back on topic, I find it interesting that there are so many doubts about the possible effects of TMZ. Does anyone know if WADA has a policy of banning substances based solely on suspicion of being performance enhancing? Are there other substances on the list that WADA is not sure about?
We could just change the country from Kenya to Russia to see how fatuous rekrunner's arguments are that seek to minimise doping, as though we are just confined to discussing one athlete taking just one of many drug options. There is a horde of doping but he sees only one solitary doper.
Not sure how replacing Kenya for Russia changes anything. They are not interchangeable, so that very exercise would be fatuous.
I don't make arguments "that seek to minize doping". I seek to maximize knowledge with data and facts, and minimize mythology and imagination and faith.
I do not confine your discussion, but you repeatedly chose to respond to me wondering why there is a recent significant increase in busts for a drug that has been available for 60 years.
Virtually every response you gave is unsupported by data, and often contradicted by data.
If you want to accuse me of "seeking to minimize doping", it is in the same sense that WADA and all ADAs and ADOs and IUs seek to minimize the incidence of doping, not only by testing and sanctioning, but by education and myth busting and encouraging WADA-legal training and a mentality of self-belief.
Back on topic, I find it interesting that there are so many doubts about the possible effects of TMZ. Does anyone know if WADA has a policy of banning substances based solely on suspicion of being performance enhancing? Are there other substances on the list that WADA is not sure about?
According to the WADA FAQ:
The WADA Prohibited List may include any substance and methods that satisfy any two of the following three criteria: 1) It has the potential to enhance or enhances sport performance; 2) It represents an actual or potential health risk to the Athlete; 3) It violates the spirit of sport (this definition is outlined in the Code). Substances or methods which mask the effect or detection of prohibited substances are also prohibited. In addition, a substance which has not been approved for human use is likely to be prohibited as well. The Prohibited List is reviewed annually in consultation with scientific, medical and anti-doping experts to ensure it reflects current medical and scientific evidence and doping practices. The Prohibited List comes into effect on January 1st of each year and is published by WADA three months prior to coming into force; however, in exceptional circumstances, a substance or method may be added to the Prohibited List at any time.
While it looks like three criteria, it actually lists 5 criteria (including drugs that mask, and drugs not approved for humans). This also looks like it is a rule of thumb guideline for a panel of experts, rather than firm criteria.
Each year they publish an updated list, and an accompanied "Summary of Major Modifications and Explanatory Notes". The level of detail provided is usually scarce. For "trimetazidine", I could only find "... trimetazidine have been added as examples to reflect emerging patterns of drug use". "Pattern of drug use" doesn't seem to fit any of the criteria. This doesn't explain which criteria they considered was met, nor what was considered to make that determination, nor that it even satisfied "2 out of 3" criteria.
For some other substances, you may find this article interesting, questioning the scientific evidentiary basis for the banning of meldonium, trimetazidine, xenon, and cobalt:
"The Inclusion in WADA Prohibited List Is Not Always Supported by Scientific Evidence: A Narrative Review"
Eduard Bezuglov, Oleg Talibov, Mikhail Butovskiy, Vladimir Khaitin, Evgeny Achkasov, Zbigniew Waśkiewicz , Artemii Lazarev
Our goal was to review the current literature regarding the ability of substances that have recently been included in the WADA prohibited list (i.e., meldon...
I will use simple words, maybe then you will understand. See first post on thread. Nothing but a link that says: "Kenyan marathoner Kemei Kiprono provisionally suspended by AIU". "This thread is about a Kenyan runner busted for Trimetazidine." is correct.
Regardless how simple the words are you use, he will not understand. Partly maybe because of his age and his limited thinking ability. But mostly because he has no interest to "understand". He has long long ago finished his thinking process in this issue, his conclusion is fixed. NOTHING can change this.
There's also no end to the Kenyan doping apologists who turn up here. This thread is about yet another doped Kenyan, which is the most common occurrence in the sport today. But you blind fans won't allow yourselves to see it.
The thread title is "another Kenyan busted". It means one of many. I told you you can't read.
The thread title is "another Kenyan busted". And that Kenyan is one individual. One Kenyan. Kemei Kiprono. I told you you can't read. You always throw your toys out of the pram when faced with facts. So infantile.
Back on topic, I find it interesting that there are so many doubts about the possible effects of TMZ. Does anyone know if WADA has a policy of banning substances based solely on suspicion of being performance enhancing? Are there other substances on the list that WADA is not sure about?
Not so unsure that they don't ban athletes for using them. So many Kenyans prepared to show that. Your digressions and those of rekrunner don't change that.
We could just change the country from Kenya to Russia to see how fatuous rekrunner's arguments are that seek to minimise doping, as though we are just confined to discussing one athlete taking just one of many drug options. There is a horde of doping but he sees only one solitary doper.
Not sure how replacing Kenya for Russia changes anything. They are not interchangeable, so that very exercise would be fatuous.
I don't make arguments "that seek to minize doping". I seek to maximize knowledge with data and facts, and minimize mythology and imagination and faith.
I do not confine your discussion, but you repeatedly chose to respond to me wondering why there is a recent significant increase in busts for a drug that has been available for 60 years.
Virtually every response you gave is unsupported by data, and often contradicted by data.
If you want to accuse me of "seeking to minimize doping", it is in the same sense that WADA and all ADAs and ADOs and IUs seek to minimize the incidence of doping, not only by testing and sanctioning, but by education and myth busting and encouraging WADA-legal training and a mentality of self-belief.
Waffle waffle. You pretend not to see that Kenyan doping in distance running is as bad as any sport in Russia.
Back on topic, I find it interesting that there are so many doubts about the possible effects of TMZ. Does anyone know if WADA has a policy of banning substances based solely on suspicion of being performance enhancing? Are there other substances on the list that WADA is not sure about?
According to the WADA FAQ:
The WADA Prohibited List may include any substance and methods that satisfy any two of the following three criteria: 1) It has the potential to enhance or enhances sport performance; 2) It represents an actual or potential health risk to the Athlete; 3) It violates the spirit of sport (this definition is outlined in the Code). Substances or methods which mask the effect or detection of prohibited substances are also prohibited. In addition, a substance which has not been approved for human use is likely to be prohibited as well. The Prohibited List is reviewed annually in consultation with scientific, medical and anti-doping experts to ensure it reflects current medical and scientific evidence and doping practices. The Prohibited List comes into effect on January 1st of each year and is published by WADA three months prior to coming into force; however, in exceptional circumstances, a substance or method may be added to the Prohibited List at any time.
While it looks like three criteria, it actually lists 5 criteria (including drugs that mask, and drugs not approved for humans). This also looks like it is a rule of thumb guideline for a panel of experts, rather than firm criteria.
Each year they publish an updated list, and an accompanied "Summary of Major Modifications and Explanatory Notes". The level of detail provided is usually scarce. For "trimetazidine", I could only find "... trimetazidine have been added as examples to reflect emerging patterns of drug use". "Pattern of drug use" doesn't seem to fit any of the criteria. This doesn't explain which criteria they considered was met, nor what was considered to make that determination, nor that it even satisfied "2 out of 3" criteria.
For some other substances, you may find this article interesting, questioning the scientific evidentiary basis for the banning of meldonium, trimetazidine, xenon, and cobalt:
"The Inclusion in WADA Prohibited List Is Not Always Supported by Scientific Evidence: A Narrative Review"
None of this changes the fact that Kenyan runners will use any banned substance they can get their hands on in. It is if no importance what the drug is if it is banned. It's still doping.
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