Not quite, Guys like Coe and Murphy split 45 while Symmonds ran open 47. Colin is 48 open/46 split(both at altitude) that shows great talent for the 1500 but doesn't indicate he should focus on the 800. He could pop off a 1:43 like Webb or Wightman still
Like you said, the 46.98 split was at altitude, and probably comparable to a 48 at sea level, and especially so for a guy that lives at 7000’.
It’s still impressive, and maybe if he were to run another 400m split in the future at altitude, he could run a 46.
In what world altittude makes you run 1 second faster the 400m. .3-.4 at best
What is Smith doing in training with these guys that develops their speed so well while also balancing the aerobic end? I’m so curious.
It’s very unlikely he is doing something in training that hasn’t been done before. He said in an interview that Young’s foot speed has not changed.
One of the main things I took from Brosnan's training was doing year round speed development for HSers. I think every other week he'd do a pure speed day (as in sprinting, not 200 intervals) instead of a regular workout, although it's been a while since I saw it, so it could've been a bit more often. He said the kids basically see it as a throwaway day because it's so much easier than doing ks or 400 repeats.
I'd bet the most important part to developing speed while balancing the aerobic end is just years and years of high quality training. Going from 25-60mpw throughout HS, hitting the right paces, learning how different efforts should feel (easy, tempo, threshold, easy, vo2max, easy, etc), never getting a serious injury, then transferring to college and doing the same thing basically, but at altitude with higher mileage.
In the sweat elite video before Nico ran sub-13, he was constantly updating Smith on his knees. I think Smith may have ended the workout a bit early because Nico was a bit fast for one of the reps, and he was being cautious. I also remember Leo got sick his junior year right before/during Arcadia. Brosnan ended his whole season right there in April (after he ran 4:00.77 in the mile in March!). I honestly thought that was too cautious, but people here will tell you all the time, when you're coaching a big talent, your job is to keep them healthy.
Isn't he though? Unless he drastically improves his 5k/10kXC times over the next year I think so
We are just conditioned to middle distance runners who are really strong and can run around 13:00 or faster off 3:32 speed. 29:41 (10K XC) means Sahlman has plenty of strength for a mid-distance dude, he's just a Cooper Teare style of runner.
How is he a Cooper Teare style of runner? Cooper won an NCAA 5k title kicking down Luis Grijalva in 13:12. His 13:38 ftw was impressive at Stanford, but I don’t see any indications of contending at 5k while he is still in college. Cooper Teare has never broken 1:47 in an 800, Colin has run 1:45. Cooper finished 6th in XC Natys in 2019, Colin has not cracked the top 150 (did not make the top 7 squad this year). Cooper is definitely more strength-based than Colin from what we’ve seen so far. Yes I get he’s just a sophomore, but we haven’t seen any indication that he is a Cooper Teare style 1500m runner
It’s very unlikely he is doing something in training that hasn’t been done before. He said in an interview that Young’s foot speed has not changed.
One of the main things I took from Brosnan's training was doing year round speed development for HSers. I think every other week he'd do a pure speed day (as in sprinting, not 200 intervals) instead of a regular workout, although it's been a while since I saw it, so it could've been a bit more often. He said the kids basically see it as a throwaway day because it's so much easier than doing ks or 400 repeats.
I'd bet the most important part to developing speed while balancing the aerobic end is just years and years of high quality training. Going from 25-60mpw throughout HS, hitting the right paces, learning how different efforts should feel (easy, tempo, threshold, easy, vo2max, easy, etc), never getting a serious injury, then transferring to college and doing the same thing basically, but at altitude with higher mileage.
In the sweat elite video before Nico ran sub-13, he was constantly updating Smith on his knees. I think Smith may have ended the workout a bit early because Nico was a bit fast for one of the reps, and he was being cautious. I also remember Leo got sick his junior year right before/during Arcadia. Brosnan ended his whole season right there in April (after he ran 4:00.77 in the mile in March!). I honestly thought that was too cautious, but people here will tell you all the time, when you're coaching a big talent, your job is to keep them healthy.
Yeah, I do attribute Young running faster in the 800/1500m to improved fitness. The same season that he ran his previous PR of 3:37.8, he ran 13:11. It shouldn’t be surprising that after a 14 second improvement in the 5000m, he could shave a few second off of his 1500m time.
Maybe not racing Arcadia, and taking a few weeks off, could have saved Leo’s season.
This post was edited 12 minutes after it was posted.
One of the main things I took from Brosnan's training was doing year round speed development for HSers. I think every other week he'd do a pure speed day (as in sprinting, not 200 intervals) instead of a regular workout, although it's been a while since I saw it, so it could've been a bit more often. He said the kids basically see it as a throwaway day because it's so much easier than doing ks or 400 repeats.
I'd bet the most important part to developing speed while balancing the aerobic end is just years and years of high quality training. Going from 25-60mpw throughout HS, hitting the right paces, learning how different efforts should feel (easy, tempo, threshold, easy, vo2max, easy, etc), never getting a serious injury, then transferring to college and doing the same thing basically, but at altitude with higher mileage.
In the sweat elite video before Nico ran sub-13, he was constantly updating Smith on his knees. I think Smith may have ended the workout a bit early because Nico was a bit fast for one of the reps, and he was being cautious. I also remember Leo got sick his junior year right before/during Arcadia. Brosnan ended his whole season right there in April (after he ran 4:00.77 in the mile in March!). I honestly thought that was too cautious, but people here will tell you all the time, when you're coaching a big talent, your job is to keep them healthy.
Yeah, I do attribute Young running faster in the 800/1500m to improved fitness. The same season that he ran his previous PR of 3:37.8, he ran 13:11. It shouldn’t be surprising that after a 14 second improvement in the 5000m, he could shave a few second off of his 1500m time.
Maybe not racing Arcadia, and taking a few weeks off, could have saved Leo’s season.
Leo had mono, so it wasn't Brosnan that shut him down, but his doctor. Brosnan can take credit for allowing him to race while he had a fever for the days leading up to Arcadia, because he is so concerned with keeping his runners healthy, right?
Almost every one of the top NP runners missed an entire season due to injury. I hardly think Brosnan is a model for injury prevention. However, Peach Pit (#1 Brosnan fan) will gaslight you into thinking Brosnan was some methodical genius as opposed to an ego maniac that just ran kids incredibly hard, and luckily the super talents could mostly handle it, while many of the others got absolutely thrashed.
We are just conditioned to middle distance runners who are really strong and can run around 13:00 or faster off 3:32 speed. 29:41 (10K XC) means Sahlman has plenty of strength for a mid-distance dude, he's just a Cooper Teare style of runner.
How is he a Cooper Teare style of runner? Cooper won an NCAA 5k title kicking down Luis Grijalva in 13:12. His 13:38 ftw was impressive at Stanford, but I don’t see any indications of contending at 5k while he is still in college. Cooper Teare has never broken 1:47 in an 800, Colin has run 1:45. Cooper finished 6th in XC Natys in 2019, Colin has not cracked the top 150 (did not make the top 7 squad this year). Cooper is definitely more strength-based than Colin from what we’ve seen so far. Yes I get he’s just a sophomore, but we haven’t seen any indication that he is a Cooper Teare style 1500m runner
Yeah, I do attribute Young running faster in the 800/1500m to improved fitness. The same season that he ran his previous PR of 3:37.8, he ran 13:11. It shouldn’t be surprising that after a 14 second improvement in the 5000m, he could shave a few second off of his 1500m time.
Maybe not racing Arcadia, and taking a few weeks off, could have saved Leo’s season.
Leo had mono, so it wasn't Brosnan that shut him down, but his doctor. Brosnan can take credit for allowing him to race while he had a fever for the days leading up to Arcadia, because he is so concerned with keeping his runners healthy, right?
Almost every one of the top NP runners missed an entire season due to injury. I hardly think Brosnan is a model for injury prevention. However, Peach Pit (#1 Brosnan fan) will gaslight you into thinking Brosnan was some methodical genius as opposed to an ego maniac that just ran kids incredibly hard, and luckily the super talents could mostly handle it, while many of the others got absolutely thrashed.
Brosnan is one of the best distance coach’s the US has ever seen and understands development! Something that’s very rare now
One of the main things I took from Brosnan's training was doing year round speed development for HSers. I think every other week he'd do a pure speed day (as in sprinting, not 200 intervals) instead of a regular workout, although it's been a while since I saw it, so it could've been a bit more often. He said the kids basically see it as a throwaway day because it's so much easier than doing ks or 400 repeats.
I'd bet the most important part to developing speed while balancing the aerobic end is just years and years of high quality training. Going from 25-60mpw throughout HS, hitting the right paces, learning how different efforts should feel (easy, tempo, threshold, easy, vo2max, easy, etc), never getting a serious injury, then transferring to college and doing the same thing basically, but at altitude with higher mileage.
In the sweat elite video before Nico ran sub-13, he was constantly updating Smith on his knees. I think Smith may have ended the workout a bit early because Nico was a bit fast for one of the reps, and he was being cautious. I also remember Leo got sick his junior year right before/during Arcadia. Brosnan ended his whole season right there in April (after he ran 4:00.77 in the mile in March!). I honestly thought that was too cautious, but people here will tell you all the time, when you're coaching a big talent, your job is to keep them healthy.
Yeah, I do attribute Young running faster in the 800/1500m to improved fitness. The same season that he ran his previous PR of 3:37.8, he ran 13:11. It shouldn’t be surprising that after a 14 second improvement in the 5000m, he could shave a few second off of his 1500m time.
Maybe not racing Arcadia, and taking a few weeks off, could have saved Leo’s season.
Creepy 4:20 / Newbury Park stalker is back. Welcome to the conversation pedophile. Can you never not mention Newbury Park or Brosnan. You’re name is creepy enough
Colin Sahlman is an outstanding American talent. Arguably one of the better all-around US high school distance runners ever. A joy to watch, and a terrific competitor. He may very well end up vying for national and even global podiums in the years to come. But he's no Sebastian Coe. Not even close, as TheRealScotty hinted at above with Coe's list of WRs and Olympic medals.
Context matters. Colin is currently ranked 291st on the all-time 1,500m World Athletics site. His current 1:45.63 800 PR is tied for #5531 (no typo) on the all-time 800m list. When Coe smashed the 800m WR at age 22 in Oslo in 1:42.33, he became one of the few competitors to eclipse the former 800m record by more than one full second (along with Sydney Wooderson, Rudolf Harbig, and Peter Snell) for the last 100 years. To this day, Sebastian's other-worldly 1:41.73 WR accomplished two years later in 1981 has only been lowered (by David Rudisha) by a mere 0.82 seconds some 43 years later, despite all the advances in training methodologies & coaching, nutrition, shoe tec, track surfacing, and healthcare.
When Coe set a new mile WR at Oslo at age 22 (only 10 days after his first 800m record on the same track), he did so against one of the deepest mile fields in history at the time (the so-called 'Dream Mile', back when such races were broadcast in primetime to the American public) featuring such stars as then world-record holder John Walker, Steve Scott, Eamonn Coghlan, and Thomas Wessinghage, and toyed with them.
Coe later lowered his mile WR to a sterling 3:47.33 in 1981, but had to meanwhile fend off his countrymen Ovett and Cram for world-leading dominance (thus underscoring just how great all three runners were) during the first half of the 1980s.
It wouldn't surprise me if Sahlman ended up winning national titles and securing Olympic berths, but let's endeavor to keep his and other competitor's accomplishments in context when comparing them against the historical greats.
Yeah, I do attribute Young running faster in the 800/1500m to improved fitness. The same season that he ran his previous PR of 3:37.8, he ran 13:11. It shouldn’t be surprising that after a 14 second improvement in the 5000m, he could shave a few second off of his 1500m time.
Maybe not racing Arcadia, and taking a few weeks off, could have saved Leo’s season.
Creepy 4:20 / Newbury Park stalker is back. Welcome to the conversation pedophile. Can you never not mention Newbury Park or Brosnan. You’re name is creepy enough
Yeah, I do attribute Young running faster in the 800/1500m to improved fitness. The same season that he ran his previous PR of 3:37.8, he ran 13:11. It shouldn’t be surprising that after a 14 second improvement in the 5000m, he could shave a few second off of his 1500m time.
Maybe not racing Arcadia, and taking a few weeks off, could have saved Leo’s season.
Leo had mono, so it wasn't Brosnan that shut him down, but his doctor. Brosnan can take credit for allowing him to race while he had a fever for the days leading up to Arcadia, because he is so concerned with keeping his runners healthy, right?
Almost every one of the top NP runners missed an entire season due to injury. I hardly think Brosnan is a model for injury prevention. However, Peach Pit (#1 Brosnan fan) will gaslight you into thinking Brosnan was some methodical genius as opposed to an ego maniac that just ran kids incredibly hard, and luckily the super talents could mostly handle it, while many of the others got absolutely thrashed.
Every high school coach who had sustained success with several athletes pushed the kids hard. In the end, there would be a few success stories, but most of the kids from those high caliber programs would have moderate success or flamed out at the nest level. When you build a really good HS program, the program (kids) become a victim of success. When a group of really good kids train together, you don't get a break, every workout is tough. Your goals are NXN, Footlocker, NBN, Penn Relays, sub-4, breaking records, etc.
Since you are trying to do incredible things, your training has to be incredible, which sometimes is a bit too much for your physical development. This is particularly pernicious when you have 15–16-year-olds training alongside 18-year-olds 5-star athletes who are perhaps in their man bodies. Those 15–16-year-olds become very good, but at a cost. Once you get to the next level (college), unless your body is continuing to physically develop, the ceiling is low for improvement.
Leo had mono, so it wasn't Brosnan that shut him down, but his doctor. Brosnan can take credit for allowing him to race while he had a fever for the days leading up to Arcadia, because he is so concerned with keeping his runners healthy, right?
Almost every one of the top NP runners missed an entire season due to injury. I hardly think Brosnan is a model for injury prevention. However, Peach Pit (#1 Brosnan fan) will gaslight you into thinking Brosnan was some methodical genius as opposed to an ego maniac that just ran kids incredibly hard, and luckily the super talents could mostly handle it, while many of the others got absolutely thrashed.
Brosnan is one of the best distance coach’s the US has ever seen and understands development! Something that’s very rare now
Leo had mono, so it wasn't Brosnan that shut him down, but his doctor. Brosnan can take credit for allowing him to race while he had a fever for the days leading up to Arcadia, because he is so concerned with keeping his runners healthy, right?
Almost every one of the top NP runners missed an entire season due to injury. I hardly think Brosnan is a model for injury prevention. However, Peach Pit (#1 Brosnan fan) will gaslight you into thinking Brosnan was some methodical genius as opposed to an ego maniac that just ran kids incredibly hard, and luckily the super talents could mostly handle it, while many of the others got absolutely thrashed.
Every high school coach who had sustained success with several athletes pushed the kids hard. In the end, there would be a few success stories, but most of the kids from those high caliber programs would have moderate success or flamed out at the nest level. When you build a really good HS program, the program (kids) become a victim of success. When a group of really good kids train together, you don't get a break, every workout is tough. Your goals are NXN, Footlocker, NBN, Penn Relays, sub-4, breaking records, etc.
Since you are trying to do incredible things, your training has to be incredible, which sometimes is a bit too much for your physical development. This is particularly pernicious when you have 15–16-year-olds training alongside 18-year-olds 5-star athletes who are perhaps in their man bodies. Those 15–16-year-olds become very good, but at a cost. Once you get to the next level (college), unless your body is continuing to physically develop, the ceiling is low for improvement.
You are 100% spot on. It doesn't take a genius to write really hard workouts that elite kids like Nico and Colin can handle. The really good coaches also know the other mortals can't handle that load and customize workouts accordingly. Brosnan worked the entire team incredibly hard. The elites thrived, the really good hung on for dear life and some did great, while the majority of the rest got destroyed. Look at how small the team was and how few kids lasted 4 years. The Brosnan cult followers claim the small team was by design. It was actually more an indication of how little attention the non-elites received and how the training wasn't tailored to their abilities or desires. That's not great coaching. He was very fortunate to have a once in lifetime pipeline of very talented youth runners come to NP with parents who were very supportive (borderline obsessive).