The crazy thing is, even with the 5 and 10 WR's he doesn't pass either Bekele, Geb or Farah in terms on LD greatness - you have to win at the OG and WC's over these distances as well.
As you know, he’s already begun racking up the 5k titles—and Geb never won an Olympic or WC 5k.
Geb always won his specialty distance though, he was beating Tergat not losing to the Edinburgh athletic club at multiple world champs in a row
Right, according to what he said afterward, correct? That doesn’t really mean anything to me. Running world record-fast is hard. He ran faster than in Oslo, and he still closed in 40.32, which is very good in such a fast race, and better than we’ve seen from Jakob in his most similar races.
1. I don’t know why Jakob would make up this lactate thing.
2. He didn’t follow the pacers despite them running his preferred pace. This gives credit to his sayings about early lactate.
3. He looked the most pumped I ever have seen him afterwards (after a 1500m). He himself also said he felt extremely exhausted afterwards…
You usually have a very good reasoning and a supreme knowledge about athletics. And I think you know you have. Have this made you a little arrogant..?
OK -let me explain why I ask if this has made you a little arrogant. First of all: when I write little I mean little, and it’s not sarcastic for hugely or something like that, and I’m not at all alluding to inflated or anything in that direction…
This is not a vendetta or a crusade against you, and I’m certainly not judging you as a person. But I am irritated over things you do, or not do, and write over time. -And this is first and foremost my way of taking out that irritation, because it feels good to be real…
I’m not writing the above because you post things I disagree in or not like. -Many posters do of course that, and my posts on the other hand are certainly not liked by everybody…
Some examples of why I need to call you a little arrogant: 1. You have a habit of responding to others’ posts by a little cocky tone; a little over confident and respect less “I don’t think that at all” or something like that. -Nothing wrong with that, we all do this sometimes, and it can be very called for. But the problem is this: When the poster defends his narrative, and criticises your responding you very often ignore this (no more posts). I consider this as arrogant and it irritates me! If you, as most in this forum, had answered, and given an answer I f.ex disagreed in everything would had been normal and fine, because that’s life. But no answer after such a cocky response is often disrespect…
2. You cast something out, without arguments or reasoning. F.ex you have a couple of times alluded to “Jakob might be doped”. -Again, you are perfectly entitled to write something like that per ce, many do, and so forth. But as a serious poster you should know that you have to give some reasoning here. -Not because I need the reasoning, or Jakob, or anybody else, but because without arguments it will look like you think all here should buy your opinion because it is you that pose it. The same when you once said about Jakob and his personality “that he didn’t look well adjusted” -quite some harsh words on a young guy that is outspoken, and therefore of course says something stupid now and then (as we all do) -a young guy who maybe should be given a little slack to mature as everyone in their twenties needs… But this is not even my point here (and you are of course entitled to criticise an athlete -your judgement can of course be better than mine here, and it’s all subjective anyway) -the point again is this: the lack of argument. Again some of us are left with the feeling that you are so important that you don’t have to give any reasoning…
Let me compare you with Armstronglivs -some don’t like (to say the least!) him putting doping into everything (a quick sentence or two) -I won’t commentate on this specifically- but what I like with him (and misses with you) is that he always now and then shows the underlying arguments he has for his view…
I’m not writing this in order to get an answer from you, or getting a “thanks” -you do of course as you please. And I will try not to bother you unnecessary if you remind the same. But I could of course eventually get irritated again, and give you a short sentence or two about arrogance again if too called for, who knows…But again; this is not me threatening to hang over you. I won’t. And if eventually everything, for this or that, somehow gave reason to moderate the “arrogance” to “confidence” nobody would be more pleased than me. I have my own irritating sides, and aren’t here to claim perfection, but had to be real, here.
Saying all this I am perfectly aware of the cost of sticking my neck forward -maybe not that difficult for someone to strike back with labels of pretentious and arrogant on me of course… We’ll see.
1. I don’t know why Jakob would make up this lactate thing.
2. He didn’t follow the pacers despite them running his preferred pace. This gives credit to his sayings about early lactate.
3. He looked the most pumped I ever have seen him afterwards (after a 1500m). He himself also said he felt extremely exhausted afterwards…
You usually have a very good reasoning and a supreme knowledge about athletics. And I think you know you have. Have this made you a little arrogant..?
OK -let me explain why I ask if this has made you a little arrogant. First of all: when I write little I mean little, and it’s not sarcastic for hugely or something like that, and I’m not at all alluding to inflated or anything in that direction…
This is not a vendetta or a crusade against you, and I’m certainly not judging you as a person. But I am irritated over things you do, or not do, and write over time. -And this is first and foremost my way of taking out that irritation, because it feels good to be real…
I’m not writing the above because you post things I disagree in or not like. -Many posters do of course that, and my posts on the other hand are certainly not liked by everybody…
Some examples of why I need to call you a little arrogant: 1. You have a habit of responding to others’ posts by a little cocky tone; a little over confident and respect less “I don’t think that at all” or something like that. -Nothing wrong with that, we all do this sometimes, and it can be very called for. But the problem is this: When the poster defends his narrative, and criticises your responding you very often ignore this (no more posts). I consider this as arrogant and it irritates me! If you, as most in this forum, had answered, and given an answer I f.ex disagreed in everything would had been normal and fine, because that’s life. But no answer after such a cocky response is often disrespect…
2. You cast something out, without arguments or reasoning. F.ex you have a couple of times alluded to “Jakob might be doped”. -Again, you are perfectly entitled to write something like that per ce, many do, and so forth. But as a serious poster you should know that you have to give some reasoning here. -Not because I need the reasoning, or Jakob, or anybody else, but because without arguments it will look like you think all here should buy your opinion because it is you that pose it. The same when you once said about Jakob and his personality “that he didn’t look well adjusted” -quite some harsh words on a young guy that is outspoken, and therefore of course says something stupid now and then (as we all do) -a young guy who maybe should be given a little slack to mature as everyone in their twenties needs… But this is not even my point here (and you are of course entitled to criticise an athlete -your judgement can of course be better than mine here, and it’s all subjective anyway) -the point again is this: the lack of argument. Again some of us are left with the feeling that you are so important that you don’t have to give any reasoning…
Let me compare you with Armstronglivs -some don’t like (to say the least!) him putting doping into everything (a quick sentence or two) -I won’t commentate on this specifically- but what I like with him (and misses with you) is that he always now and then shows the underlying arguments he has for his view…
I’m not writing this in order to get an answer from you, or getting a “thanks” -you do of course as you please. And I will try not to bother you unnecessary if you remind the same. But I could of course eventually get irritated again, and give you a short sentence or two about arrogance again if too called for, who knows…But again; this is not me threatening to hang over you. I won’t. And if eventually everything, for this or that, somehow gave reason to moderate the “arrogance” to “confidence” nobody would be more pleased than me. I have my own irritating sides, and aren’t here to claim perfection, but had to be real, here.
Saying all this I am perfectly aware of the cost of sticking my neck forward -maybe not that difficult for someone to strike back with labels of pretentious and arrogant on me of course… We’ll see.
JWH - definitely one of the top 5 posters on this board
1. I don’t know why Jakob would make up this lactate thing.
2. He didn’t follow the pacers despite them running his preferred pace. This gives credit to his sayings about early lactate.
3. He looked the most pumped I ever have seen him afterwards (after a 1500m). He himself also said he felt extremely exhausted afterwards…
You usually have a very good reasoning and a supreme knowledge about athletics. And I think you know you have. Have this made you a little arrogant..?
OK -let me explain why I ask if this has made you a little arrogant. First of all: when I write little I mean little, and it’s not sarcastic for hugely or something like that, and I’m not at all alluding to inflated or anything in that direction…
This is not a vendetta or a crusade against you, and I’m certainly not judging you as a person. But I am irritated over things you do, or not do, and write over time. -And this is first and foremost my way of taking out that irritation, because it feels good to be real…
I’m not writing the above because you post things I disagree in or not like. -Many posters do of course that, and my posts on the other hand are certainly not liked by everybody…
Some examples of why I need to call you a little arrogant: 1. You have a habit of responding to others’ posts by a little cocky tone; a little over confident and respect less “I don’t think that at all” or something like that. -Nothing wrong with that, we all do this sometimes, and it can be very called for. But the problem is this: When the poster defends his narrative, and criticises your responding you very often ignore this (no more posts). I consider this as arrogant and it irritates me! If you, as most in this forum, had answered, and given an answer I f.ex disagreed in everything would had been normal and fine, because that’s life. But no answer after such a cocky response is often disrespect…
2. You cast something out, without arguments or reasoning. F.ex you have a couple of times alluded to “Jakob might be doped”. -Again, you are perfectly entitled to write something like that per ce, many do, and so forth. But as a serious poster you should know that you have to give some reasoning here. -Not because I need the reasoning, or Jakob, or anybody else, but because without arguments it will look like you think all here should buy your opinion because it is you that pose it. The same when you once said about Jakob and his personality “that he didn’t look well adjusted” -quite some harsh words on a young guy that is outspoken, and therefore of course says something stupid now and then (as we all do) -a young guy who maybe should be given a little slack to mature as everyone in their twenties needs… But this is not even my point here (and you are of course entitled to criticise an athlete -your judgement can of course be better than mine here, and it’s all subjective anyway) -the point again is this: the lack of argument. Again some of us are left with the feeling that you are so important that you don’t have to give any reasoning…
Let me compare you with Armstronglivs -some don’t like (to say the least!) him putting doping into everything (a quick sentence or two) -I won’t commentate on this specifically- but what I like with him (and misses with you) is that he always now and then shows the underlying arguments he has for his view…
I’m not writing this in order to get an answer from you, or getting a “thanks” -you do of course as you please. And I will try not to bother you unnecessary if you remind the same. But I could of course eventually get irritated again, and give you a short sentence or two about arrogance again if too called for, who knows…But again; this is not me threatening to hang over you. I won’t. And if eventually everything, for this or that, somehow gave reason to moderate the “arrogance” to “confidence” nobody would be more pleased than me. I have my own irritating sides, and aren’t here to claim perfection, but had to be real, here.
Saying all this I am perfectly aware of the cost of sticking my neck forward -maybe not that difficult for someone to strike back with labels of pretentious and arrogant on me of course… We’ll see.
Yapping about JWH is wild. I don't think any of his responses come off as "arrogant," and certainly not to the degree you proclaim. Also comparing him to Armstronglivs in the way you do doesn't make sense; JWH does back it up with his reasoning.
I just can't believe you wrote a post this long that essentially boils down to nothing.
Since the thread refers to "all" of the records the argument that he might have a chance for one or two says it is virtually zero that he will take all of them.
Yapping about JWH is wild. I don't think any of his responses come off as "arrogant," and certainly not to the degree you proclaim. Also comparing him to Armstronglivs in the way you do doesn't make sense; JWH does back it up with his reasoning.
I just can't believe you wrote a post this long that essentially boils down to nothing.
Your opinion is fine. But it’s impossible to meet because of your lack of concrete arguments. But saying this that is OK too -I’m not too comfortable by analysing another poster in detail through multiple posts. And I think it’s totally OK that you support him.
JWH - definitely one of the top 5 posters on this board
Sure, but your post only confirm a part of my narrative: That JWH is a respected poster, and has good reasons for being confident. But also that confidence sometimes can lead to over confidence, (“a little arrogance”), and that my criticism is called for…
But saying this, I will also say the following (totally without sarcasm): It’s of course not pleasant to be criticised through multiple paragraphs in a post. Therefore I welcome your support for him! -Another poster I pretty much like on this forum even has JWH as his number 1 favourite poster. So it’s not about Harding being a bad poster… Not at all.
Get back to me when he splits first 800m of 1500m so-called world record attempt near world record pace. I am tired of the hype of so-called 1500m world record attempts. J I refuses to split first 800m, sub-1:51.
Get back to me when he splits first 4000m of 5000m world record attempt at world record pace. For a 5000m world record attempt, it will be like his 2 mile world record performance, J Ingebrigtsen will not allow any truly elite 5000m men in race with him for 5000m world record attempt.
600m man! Do you think any of "the truly elite 5000m men" could have held his back in the 2 miles WB race?
If any of them want to break the 5000m WR why can´t they do it themselves? Does Jakob need to be there to be the reserve pacemaker?
I think he could have taken all of them last year (perhaps apart from the 1500m WR) but I am quite certain that he won´t try to break WRs on the longer distances in the next 2 years.
Provided he overcomes his injury problems so he can continue his efficient training I think he will break the 1500m and the mile WR at latest next year (where there is only one international competition).
There has been a lot of writings about how can break the 1500m WR.
I will say it could as simple as this: 3x 55 and the last 300m in sub 41. He can do this when he has improved his endurance slightly.
Get back to me when he splits first 800m of 1500m so-called world record attempt near world record pace. I am tired of the hype of so-called 1500m world record attempts. J I refuses to split first 800m, sub-1:51.
Get back to me when he splits first 4000m of 5000m world record attempt at world record pace. For a 5000m world record attempt, it will be like his 2 mile world record performance, J Ingebrigtsen will not allow any truly elite 5000m men in race with him for 5000m world record attempt.
afaik Jakob has only attempted the 1500m WR once, and he got it. 3:30 Indoors in 2022 I believe.
After his 3:43 he said he's still very far away from the record. I remember immediately after the race I said he'd have gotten the record if the pacing hadn't been so horrendous. Recently, I rewatched the race and realized I was completely right. He was basically the pacer for Nuguse for 1609m.
All that to say:
1) I don't think anyone is calling his 1500m DL races "WR attempts". You may have gotten confused because while he raced 1500s/miles in DLs Rabat, Oslo, Lausanne, Silesia, and Pre, he broke WRs in the 2-mile and 2k at DL meets. I know it can be confusing because Jakob races so quickly so often. I think there was some talk about Pre being a WR attempt, but he ran 3:43 basically with just wavelights, so I think it was justified.
2) Jakob is the only guy in the world who could reasonably say they're targeting the 1500m WR. Nuguse got carried along to a ~3:27.3 equivalent, and wasn't faster indoors than he was last year. Kerr has been on a different level recently, and he ran 3:29.0 a couple years ago. He could run a huge PR this year, but he could PR by 2s and still not break into the 3:26s. If Kerr or Nuguse run 3:27 this year, they can start considering the WR, but until then, Jakob is on a different plane.
And also the 5000 point is dumb. If Jakob couldn't handle a fast 5k pace, why didn't any of the half dozen 12:40-12:42 guys in the final push the pace? Instead, they let the pace go slow till the last 800m so Jakob could run a 1:50. Also in the 3k he was running basically at WR pace, pacing all the best 5k guys in the world the day after running a 3:43 mile (also bad pacesetting), and he still crushed all of them. Kiplimo/Kejelcha/Barega/Aregawi/Cheptegi/Krop are G-league compared to Jakob and they know it.
Ad 1. I agree. Jakob hasn´t announced an attack on the 1500m WR (apart from the indoors) or the mile WR yet.
Outdoor he has announced attacks on the 2 miles WB and the 2000m WR and he got them easily in a fashion so at least the 3000m and possibly also the 5000m WR could have been broken if he had run these distances in the same shape.
I also agree he could have broken the mile WR in the Bowerman mile 2023 IF THE CONDITIONS HAD BEEN BETTER .
In my opinion he could also have broken the mile WR in DL Brüssel if he had run it instead of the 2000m.
Ad 2. I agree that Jakob at the moment is the only serious contnder for the 1500m WR. I have argued in a post above that he can run 3x 55 and the last 300m in sub 41 when he has slightly better endurance.
5000m: I wouldn´t call the other elite 5000m G-league but I agree that Jakob is on another level. And they can´t run away from Jakob if he is at his best, even if they run low 12:40s.
I think the last 1000m was fast in Budapest. The 200m from 1000m to 800m was 30.42sec equal to a 5000m in 12:40.5sec.
As you know, he’s already begun racking up the 5k titles—and Geb never won an Olympic or WC 5k.
Yeah that's correct - but the 5000m is still this funny distance where some people see it as the last middle distance event, others see it as the first long distance event. Even with a WR in the 10000m you couldn't put him ahead of Geb who won 3 WC's/2 OG's over I guess the first unanimous LD event the 10km and definitely not Bekele for obvious reasons. Can't either with Farah who won the global double 4 times across the worlds and olympics and was less than half a second away from doing it an absurd 5 straight times. That is unless he starts running 10's kind of soon right? I just don't know when he does this? Is the 10 on the cards for LA in 2028? Maybe. If it is it certainly means his 1500m running is done. I just think people have this expectation that once he finishes his elite 1500m/mile running he will just move on up to the 5/10 and take that level with him. I just don't know if it works like this. Farah had 7 great seasons, Bekele 9, Geb also 9. Jakob really became elite in 2020 so LA could in theory be his Olympic swan song and maybe he gets to the 2029 worlds wherever they are.
Jakob running the 10,000m:
I think this will happen if the 10,000m is run after the 5000m and the 1500m. In that case Jakob will probably try to triple.
In general I think that it would be a good idea to run the 5000m before the 10,000m also for the runners who will only double these distances. Since the 10,000m possibly is harder to recover from than the 5000m.
Jakob first great season:
I don´t think he became an elite before the 2021 season. In 2020 he was "only" a promising teenager who was beaten by Timothy in the 1500m and by Kiplimo in the 3000m.
In 2021 Jakob was equal to Timothy and won the DL Florence 5000m. He has been unbeaten from the mile to the 5000m since 2021.
Jakob on the longer distances:
He - as you possibly know - states that he is better the longer he runs up to HM. Most posters think he exaggerates or is misjudging himself (TL comes to mind).
I think his statement is based strictly on facts:
He knows on decimal how fast he has been running his various treshold reps during the years. These treshold reps are run at a fixed lactate number (mmol/l) so the improvement of the times is a direct measure for his improvement in the distances he is competing in AND CAN ALSO BE A MEASURE FOR WHICH DISTANCES ARE HIS BEST. I guess he has been improving his times relatively more on his longer reps (2km and 3km) than on his shorter reps (400m and 1000m) and that´s why he states he is better the longer he runs.
By the way: His medals harvest seems to confirm he is stronger in the 5000m than in the 1500m.
How about what if he breaks even ONE real world record??
The indoor 1500 WR is a joke "WR". The indoor 2000m is even more of a joke and should be at most called a "world best" like the indoor two-mile (not even a real WR but a "world best.")
How about what if he breaks even ONE real world record??
The indoor 1500 WR is a joke "WR". The indoor 2000m is even more of a joke and should be at most called a "world best" like the indoor two-mile (not even a real WR but a "world best.")
Start this thread again when he comes within:
ONE SECOND OF THE 1500 world record
THREE SECONDS OF THE 3000 world record
TEN SECONDS OF THE 5000 world record
LOL HIS PB is 90 SECONDS OFF THE 10k WR.
You are just a clueless hater with a problematic relationship with facts:
Why do you write about the indoor 2000m WR? Jakob broke the OUTDOOR 2000M WR last year by bettering the middle distance Goat´s former WR with more than 1.5 sec. The 2000m WR is now the strongest outdoor WR from 800m to 10,000m according to Worldathletic´s ranking points. By the way: The INDOOR 2000m WR is held by K. Bekele in a time which is almost 7 sec slower than Jakob´s OUTDOOR WR.
Jakob IS within 3 seconds from the 3000m WR after his 3000m final in Eugene 2023. That race was, however, run on tired legs the day after his 3:43 in the 2023 Bowerman Mile.
And: Posters who are following the sport agree that Jakob´s 2Miles WB and 2000m WR equals a 3000m time 1-1.5 seconds faster than Komen´s WR.
When Jakob breaks his next WR you will possibly come back (under a new username) claiming that he will never break more WRs AND/ OR that this was peak Jakob.
How about what if he breaks even ONE real world record??
The indoor 1500 WR is a joke "WR". The indoor 2000m is even more of a joke and should be at most called a "world best" like the indoor two-mile (not even a real WR but a "world best.")
Start this thread again when he comes within:
ONE SECOND OF THE 1500 world record
THREE SECONDS OF THE 3000 world record
TEN SECONDS OF THE 5000 world record
LOL HIS PB is 90 SECONDS OFF THE 10k WR.
I agree with your comments on the indoor 1500m record. But the 2000m WR isn’t an indoors one, as you seem to think…
I agree in your last sentence in this post. But you risk having to swallow your LOL here eventually, who knows..
To the other records: Strange that you can’t see that Jakob has a capacity beyond his pb’s here (not set in optimal runs)…
How about what if he breaks even ONE real world record??
The indoor 1500 WR is a joke "WR". The indoor 2000m is even more of a joke and should be at most called a "world best" like the indoor two-mile (not even a real WR but a "world best.")
Start this thread again when he comes within:
ONE SECOND OF THE 1500 world record
THREE SECONDS OF THE 3000 world record
TEN SECONDS OF THE 5000 world record
LOL HIS PB is 90 SECONDS OFF THE 10k WR.
Have you discussed this issue with Armstronglivs before your post?
Facts?
Objectivity?
Reasoning?
All not yours.
Within next two years (if he really tries) I give him chances something like:
1500m: 10%
Mile: 25% (weaker mark and longer than 1500m)
3000m: 60% (just needs form of last year)
5000m: 30%
10000m: 15% (really just a guess)
steeple: 30% (not for next two years, but during career)