If you are very low mileage runner (20 mpw or under) focused on 5k and under:In terms of weekly importance. 1) 2 workouts 2) heavy weight day (big compound movements. 3) easy runs. 4) cross training etc..... So: 3 days to train? 3rd day is heavy weights over aerobic running...
Fast, meditate, and rest all day, at least once per week. The fasting will force your body to use the inflamatory gunk as its fuel. The meditation will help you feel pain appropriately and get an intuitive sense for your progress. The rest part is obvious.
If you are very low mileage runner (20 mpw or under) focused on 5k and under:In terms of weekly importance. 1) 2 workouts 2) heavy weight day (big compound movements. 3) easy runs. 4) cross training etc..... So: 3 days to train? 3rd day is heavy weights over aerobic running...
My bro science take is that if you are running 20 miles per week and aren't diagnosed with a dibilitating condition, you aren't training at all and are a primadonna... maybe with the exception of middle-schoolers or those old enough to receive social security.
The idea that after some hill repetitions you have to transform the work you done with some rep or fast pace on flat. Many coaches believe this but to me is just Bro science with any scientific study to support it and is just nonsense and the best way to get some injury ,when you add more stress to your muscle already tired by the hill rep. Better to me the opposite or doing hill after some work on flat .
This post was edited 52 seconds after it was posted.
Great thread, Bro. My take on training is to never repeat the same route in 10 runs. I’ve mapped out 15 different routes that give my legs and my brain different stimuli. This helps me to be able to race well on a variety of courses, and it keeps my training from getting mundane.
All training basically boils down to enabling a runner to ride the pain train for as long as possible to be able to run solid splits in a race instead of crashing and having a big positive split. It doesn't matter whether you do a tempo, threshold, fartlek or whatever. You just need to induce the pain train during a workout and use each subsequent workout to extend the amount of time/distance you can handle being on the pain train. And "pain train" generally means when your breathing doubles up and you feel like you cannot go much faster without going into an all out sprint.
I agree on the pain. I ran 4:08 mile and a 1:51 800m in college and I still get butterflies when I walk on a track, even if I’m not running. The pain that I learned and experienced on the track in workouts and races is real. I always wonder if the elites are just super physically talented and experience the same amount of pain as us plebeians. Newer road runners, specifically a friend who has run a 2:32 marathon, who never ran track in high school/ college don’t have this relationship to pain and don’t seem to be able to push as hard. They also seem to do more race simulation workouts to convince themselves they can race at that pace.
One of the races I am most proud of is a road 5k I ran with a friend who was really fit. I didn’t get to train like I’d hoped, so I wasn’t ready for the pace I started at- 16:00. (he trotted off aiming for 15:15). First mile, as always, felt easy (5:07/8) but at 1.5 I realized I was not prepared at all. I pushed on desperately and hit 2 miles at 10:20. For some reason I was mentally tougher than normal and gutted out 15:58. I could barely stand at the finish line. Super dizzy. (Ritzenhein-esque scene) Couldn’t eat food the rest of the day but too uncomfortable to sleep. I’d only felt that way once before after a brutal track session in college where I tried to show my older teammates I could hang.
All training basically boils down to enabling a runner to ride the pain train for as long as possible to be able to run solid splits in a race instead of crashing and having a big positive split. It doesn't matter whether you do a tempo, threshold, fartlek or whatever. You just need to induce the pain train during a workout and use each subsequent workout to extend the amount of time/distance you can handle being on the pain train. And "pain train" generally means when your breathing doubles up and you feel like you cannot go much faster without going into an all out sprint.
I agree on the pain. I ran 4:08 mile and a 1:51 800m in college and I still get butterflies when I walk on a track, even if I’m not running. The pain that I learned and experienced on the track in workouts and races is real. I always wonder if the elites are just super physically talented and experience the same amount of pain as us plebeians. Newer road runners, specifically a friend who has run a 2:32 marathon, who never ran track in high school/ college don’t have this relationship to pain and don’t seem to be able to push as hard. They also seem to do more race simulation workouts to convince themselves they can race at that pace.
One of the races I am most proud of is a road 5k I ran with a friend who was really fit. I didn’t get to train like I’d hoped, so I wasn’t ready for the pace I started at- 16:00. (he trotted off aiming for 15:15). First mile, as always, felt easy (5:07/8) but at 1.5 I realized I was not prepared at all. I pushed on desperately and hit 2 miles at 10:20. For some reason I was mentally tougher than normal and gutted out 15:58. I could barely stand at the finish line. Super dizzy. (Ritzenhein-esque scene) Couldn’t eat food the rest of the day but too uncomfortable to sleep. I’d only felt that way once before after a brutal track session in college where I tried to show my older teammates I could hang.
pain management is definitely a thing.
Pain management is important. Going to the well is a critical tool in the toolbox wether that be in a big interval session or a hard race. What I think lots of people get wrong is the quantity of those extreme sessions. If your try to go all out everyday you will get worse. Think Alberto or Ryan Hall. They messed up their endocrine systems. It's a balancing act of pushing the body and allowing for recovery and adaption.
I agree on the pain. I ran 4:08 mile and a 1:51 800m in college and I still get butterflies when I walk on a track, even if I’m not running. The pain that I learned and experienced on the track in workouts and races is real. I always wonder if the elites are just super physically talented and experience the same amount of pain as us plebeians. Newer road runners, specifically a friend who has run a 2:32 marathon, who never ran track in high school/ college don’t have this relationship to pain and don’t seem to be able to push as hard. They also seem to do more race simulation workouts to convince themselves they can race at that pace.
One of the races I am most proud of is a road 5k I ran with a friend who was really fit. I didn’t get to train like I’d hoped, so I wasn’t ready for the pace I started at- 16:00. (he trotted off aiming for 15:15). First mile, as always, felt easy (5:07/8) but at 1.5 I realized I was not prepared at all. I pushed on desperately and hit 2 miles at 10:20. For some reason I was mentally tougher than normal and gutted out 15:58. I could barely stand at the finish line. Super dizzy. (Ritzenhein-esque scene) Couldn’t eat food the rest of the day but too uncomfortable to sleep. I’d only felt that way once before after a brutal track session in college where I tried to show my older teammates I could hang.
pain management is definitely a thing.
Pain management is important. Going to the well is a critical tool in the toolbox wether that be in a big interval session or a hard race. What I think lots of people get wrong is the quantity of those extreme sessions. If your try to go all out everyday you will get worse. Think Alberto or Ryan Hall. They messed up their endocrine systems. It's a balancing act of pushing the body and allowing for recovery and adaption.
Largely agree. The older and more experienced I get, the less I feel like I need to dip into the blurry vision/whole-body-numbness zone. BUT, I still need to do it now and then to know what it's going to feel like at the end of a race. I think I need to really feel this pain no more than a handful of times in a whole training cycle. Once or twice in the early phases on some tough hills. Twice or three times on the track, spiked up.
Something I've talked to a friend about is how newer runners who didn't run track when they were younger often have no idea about this type of session. He told me a running club does "The Michigan" and 99% of people don't have the discipline to execute it anywhere near properly. They show up all cheery and excited about a "big workout they read about online." When we were in college and facing one of these killer sessions, no one was really cheery and smiley. We were pumped up, but we recognized that it was about to be otherworldly pain for the next half hour or whatever.
Anything 10K and under can be mastered with three days of running weekly. A seven-mile run, a five-mile tempo run, and five miles of long intervals. The rest is fluff and posturing.
Anything 10K and under can be mastered with three days of running weekly. A seven-mile run, a five-mile tempo run, and five miles of long intervals. The rest is fluff and posturing.
Many of the things that people are posting here are in the category of "it might or might not be true" and there's littler evidente about it either way. What you are saying is just.. false.
Anything 10K and under can be mastered with three days of running weekly. A seven-mile run, a five-mile tempo run, and five miles of long intervals. The rest is fluff and posturing.
Many of the things that people are posting here are in the category of "it might or might not be true" and there's littler evidente about it either way. What you are saying is just.. false.
Ever heard of "bro science"? Stay on topic, please.
Working out at Mile pace and Marathon pace is highly overrated for the two events. For both concentrating your workout efforts at a little bit faster (800-1200m pace) (HM-MP-10) or slower (3-5K pace, MP+10-20) is superior.
Working out at Mile pace and Marathon pace is highly overrated for the two events. For both concentrating your workout efforts at a little bit faster (800-1200m pace) (HM-MP-10) or slower (3-5K pace, MP+10-20) is superior.
I actually think 1500m pace or a touch slower is perfect for short intervals working on economy without beating up the legs like 800/1k pace does. But I agree on MP, albeit anything near that pace should be at lactate threshold (so conceivably there is a rep/rest ratio where MP results in the correct lactate levels).
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