It's a mathematical impossibility to simultaneously maximize for two independent variables. JS either made a financial decision or thought he could be a coaching superhero.
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Think Again wrote:
reer wrote:
Just imagine how different everything would be right now if only Shelby had chosen not to dope.
This to me is the original trigger that set things off in this direction to where we are today.
I disagree. Even if Shelby had never doped, Jerry still would have taken the head coach job at the University of Oregon. And there is no way that Jerry was going to be able to coach Bowerman and college at the same time.
Not to mention that many of the Bowerman runners weren't happy about being forced to move to Eugene, which had nothing to do with whether or not Shelby was on the team.
Perhaps, but my hypothesis is that if Shelby had never doped, the group would have been in a much stronger position both PR-wise and athlete/performance-wise (e.g., wouldn't have had the departure and revelations of GDS). With a strong, cohesive group giving off good vibes, which is how they felt in 2019-2020, I don't think Nike would have rocked the boat and sabotaged the BTC by asking Jerry to take the UO job.
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reer wrote:
Perhaps, but my hypothesis is that if Shelby had never doped, the group would have been in a much stronger position both PR-wise and athlete/performance-wise (e.g., wouldn't have had the departure and revelations of GDS). With a strong, cohesive group giving off good vibes, which is how they felt in 2019-2020, I don't think Nike would have rocked the boat and sabotaged the BTC by asking Jerry to take the UO job.
If Shelby had never doped, she never would have gotten an AR. So performance-wise, the group would have been weaker.
Not to mention the different group dynamics, had she stayed on the outside.
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good riddance wrote:
reer wrote:
Perhaps, but my hypothesis is that if Shelby had never doped, the group would have been in a much stronger position both PR-wise and athlete/performance-wise (e.g., wouldn't have had the departure and revelations of GDS). With a strong, cohesive group giving off good vibes, which is how they felt in 2019-2020, I don't think Nike would have rocked the boat and sabotaged the BTC by asking Jerry to take the UO job.
If Shelby had never doped, she never would have gotten an AR. So performance-wise, the group would have been weaker.
Not to mention the different group dynamics, had she stayed on the outside.
Jerry Schumacher is one of the best distance coaches around. That being said, it doesn’t matter how good you are it’s impossible to give attention to both the university and BTC.
Someone at Nike messed up and allowed this to happen.
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Let me get this straight. The BTC coaches are all U of Oregon coaches also ?
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that’s a scam.
This is a perfect way of saying we don’t care about BTC. It’s selfish to think they can coach both.271 -
Elaborate please?
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Bo Knows wrote:
good riddance wrote:
If Shelby had never doped, she never would have gotten an AR. So performance-wise, the group would have been weaker.
Not to mention the different group dynamics, had she stayed on the outside.
Jerry Schumacher is one of the best distance coaches around. That being said, it doesn’t matter how good you are it’s impossible to give attention to both the university and BTC.
Someone at Nike messed up and allowed this to happen.
I think it’s odd that Flanagan had not taken any heat for this dismantling. I would guess that this goes much deeper than what is being said in public.
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Live simply wrote:
Bo Knows wrote:
Jerry Schumacher is one of the best distance coaches around. That being said, it doesn’t matter how good you are it’s impossible to give attention to both the university and BTC.
Someone at Nike messed up and allowed this to happen.
I think it’s odd that Flanagan had not taken any heat for this dismantling. I would guess that this goes much deeper than what is being said in public.
You're almost certainly correct about there being more than is said publicly. Regarding Flanagan, I think she's not mentioned because no one believes that she has any really autonomy or role in the direction of the program.
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Is it possible there is an ongoing, fundamental shift taking place within T&F regarding how much money will be allocated to US athletes, and at what competitive level? Surely the new NIL landscape plays into this, and maybe ‘social media influencers’ which don’t even factor competitively in T&F?
This topic may deserve it’s own thread, but the ramifications may be having an impact on what we are witnessing, particularly with the older athletes, at BTC?
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WHO. CARES. ??
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NOT wrote:
WHO. CARES. ??
a lot of us, obviously
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swanky17 wrote:
Rojo/Gault have you reached out to Jerry/Shalane/BTC for comment/a statement about this? Someone should be asking him/them to explain, even if we think we know why all these athletes are leaving. Or do they hope they can just let this all pass by without any statement??
Considering Jerry didn't give us any quotes when Jon asked him for comments for his NCAA XC preview or after conference last week, why should we bother?
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rojo wrote:
swanky17 wrote:
Rojo/Gault have you reached out to Jerry/Shalane/BTC for comment/a statement about this? Someone should be asking him/them to explain, even if we think we know why all these athletes are leaving. Or do they hope they can just let this all pass by without any statement??
Considering Jerry didn't give us any quotes when Jon asked him for comments for his NCAA XC preview or after conference last week, why should we bother?
HE. DOES. NOT. CARE. … you got your answer(s).
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rojo wrote:
Considering Jerry didn't give us any quotes when Jon asked him for comments for his NCAA XC preview or after conference last week, why should we bother?
Considering you have allowed posters to incessantly accuse one of his assistant coaches of doping his star female athlete to a runner-up position at NCAAs, why should he bother answering questions from LetsRun? I hope other schools follow suit. Maybe you will learn a lesson.
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The Dirty Duck wrote:
swanky17 wrote:
Rojo/Gault have you reached out to Jerry/Shalane/BTC for comment/a statement about this? Someone should be asking him/them to explain, even if we think we know why all these athletes are leaving. Or do they hope they can just let this all pass by without any statement??
Jerry will be issuing a statement at his regular biennial press conference.
He'll say he's never heard of Elise Cranny.
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Eugene, Oregon destroys everything that comes to it. Who knew that BTC would fall apart after forcing its athletes to come to a college town in the middle of nowhere, where you can't even get a direct flight to 80% of the country. Oh, pretty much everyone. It's why serious track fans bang their head against a brick wall when they find out that yet again USATF Champs are yet again going to Hayward Field. It's embarrassing. Other countries have their national championships in, like, their national capitals, or even, like, major cities. The USA, the largest T&F country in the world? Uh, Eugene, Oregon, population 175,000, not enough hotels, not enough transpo, not enough restaurants, 1 hour 45 minute drive to the nearest larger city, which, being Portland, is still ridiculously small. BTC was dead the second they moved it to Eugene, and UST&F is dead until they start consistently having Champs in real cities.
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you asked for it wrote:
rojo wrote:
Considering Jerry didn't give us any quotes when Jon asked him for comments for his NCAA XC preview or after conference last week, why should we bother?
Considering you have allowed posters to incessantly accuse one of his assistant coaches of doping his star female athlete to a runner-up position at NCAAs, why should he bother answering questions from LetsRun? I hope other schools follow suit. Maybe you will learn a lesson.
At least LRC isn’t a kiss azz like citius-mag (shill) … These posters are allowed to have a platform to express opinions.
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MattHatter wrote:
that said, even if Jerry balanced Oregon and Bowerman equally, moving to Eugene is THE reason for all the defections. the team has been complaining about their new location at every event. the running community is small and when a team (especially one as well known as Bowerman) complains EVERYONE knows about it.
Meanwhile Kipchoge is happy to train in a hut in Kenya.....
and Hellen Obiri isn't complaining about having to move halfway around the world.
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NOT wrote:
you asked for it wrote:
Considering you have allowed posters to incessantly accuse one of his assistant coaches of doping his star female athlete to a runner-up position at NCAAs, why should he bother answering questions from LetsRun? I hope other schools follow suit. Maybe you will learn a lesson.
At least LRC isn’t a kiss azz like citius-mag (shill) … These posters are allowed to have a platform to express opinions.
Can someone explain to me what the poster is referring to?
I just had to google who got 2nd for Oregon at NCAAs. I assume it means that someone posted a post saying Izzy Thornton-Bott doped to get 2nd at NCAAs?" I certainly don't think that's a common post as a) No one is normally talking about the 2nd placer at NCAAs a lot and b) there haven't been a slew of reported posts about it.
But let's assume it did happen, what do you wantm to do about it? I'm supposed to vet all posts for their validity? We don't do that and will never do it.
One shouldn't say, "Person a is on drugs" unleses they have proof. But if someone wants to say, "Weldon Johsson's improvement from 29:49 to 28:07 at like age 28 was suspicious as hell" they can say it.
If you have a post you'd like us to take a look at , we say please use the "report a post" feature. But ot make sure I read anything about this matter - email me directly at .Jerry isn't mad at us. He just doesn't like to media - never has.
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I think that poster is referring to Solinsky and Valby, as Solinsky is now an assistant coach at Oregon and there was some doping speculation surrounding Valby last year. I could be wrong though.
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