Nothing like seeing the Tour de Finance guys here in Oslo wearing their replica world champion rainbow jerseys unironically.
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31
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FatSlowLurker wrote:
Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
Great point - all those "three time use then toss away" phones out there huh.
I’m not sure where this craziness about only being able to use them for a couple races is coming from. Pebax has been shown to be much more durable than regular old EVA. People said the Vaporfly were only good for a couple races when it first came out, but that’s complete nonsense. I know people who’ve gotten more miles out of their Vaporfly than I do in regular trainers (they’re young and light; I’m old and fat, but still)
It's not about Pebax v EVA. You can make any foam (including Pebax) last longer than the upper on the shoe if you want and it's all about the foam density. With Pebax (which is formed in a autoclave) you just put in a larger blocker (the blob of foam in its basic shape) so it expands less into it's final shape. Less expansion in the mold = smaller air pockets in the foam = firmer and more dense foam = lasts much longer (I could explain but surely I don't need to).
The zotefoam Pebax used on the Vaporfly is actually fairly dense and the rubber inserts, while not massive, do a good job reducing the shear force on the foam (a bigger killer of the foam than just pure surface friction).
It's not "craziness" - it's reality. Nothing adidas did here with respect to the foam is that innovative or special. They just used the smallest possible blocker they could with their lightstrike foam and "blew it up" as much as they could. If you cut a midsole open it would look like a kitchen dish sponge. That's why it's so light and that's why they put the disclaimer in the box because otherwise it opens them up for product returns which they pay for (well actually the factory that makes them pays for so it's really them that said they wouldn't produce them without a disclaimer).
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boingboingboingboing wrote:
Look at the 3rd comment at the end of the article. Shoe companies are making the sport an arms race with the blessing of World Athletics.
Tom wrote:
I tested them during a lactate threshold/shoe tech study in a lab... awesome / was going 1km/h faster vs another mystery shoe for the same amount of lactate build-up .... wouldn't pay more than £150 for any shoe though ... and they wouldn't let me keep them 😂The new hotness.
💵💵💵💵💵
10 -
boingboingboing wrote:
boingboingboingboing wrote:
Look at the 3rd comment at the end of the article. Shoe companies are making the sport an arms race with the blessing of World Athletics.
The new hotness.
💵💵💵💵💵
Different runners respond differently, supershoesare all different, and elite men/faster runners benefit less than elite women/slower runner to a point, blah, blah, blah... But if she were also getting 1 km/hour benefit (over another mystery supershoe) like Tom in the RTR comments, that would mean about 6 minutes. No one would blink an eye at 2:18.
10 -
So there are supercars and supershoes. There are also hypercars. Is this the new hypershoe?
30 -
Rich dentist wrote:
I’m already paying $230 to register for Boston, $100 for the race jacket that I already have six of, $500 for airplane flight and $500/night for a hotel, what’s another $500 for shoes that will help me be top 100 in the 50-55 age group.
You have an addiction problem bro.
04 -
Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
Here is my struggle. Adidas promotes itself as an industry "pioneer" in sustainability/ethical practice. Here is their corporate guidance on that very topic.
.Yet this shoe has been made to last what, 40 miles? A "breaking in" period followed by one marathon and then what? Well you toss it in a landfill because the midsole foam has totally compressed and/or sheared off the bottom and adidas pat themselves on the back after making 150+ margin points on a $50-$55 landed shoe.
Hey - I'm not some sanctimonious zealot that lives a perfectly circular life of minimalism and perfect environmental circularity but I try my best. Big difference is I'm not out here claiming I do and then profiting off the complete opposite.
As for the actual shoe? Understand what $500 is buying you. Carbon-infused rods aren't special. Almost every nylon/plastics supplier have options with carbon fiber content which make their different grades of material stiffer. Really the difference between this and their other adizero offerings is simply a less dense foam - hence the disclaimer of the "familiarization period and marathon" because what simply happens is that the more open (less dense) foam cell structure will just burst or break down faster and shear away on the pavement. So the foam is a different variant of the current lightstrike foam - how this commands another $250-$300 is beyond me.
From the performance side, okay there is a weight saving which improves running economy, but conversely the foam is much softer and compliant so don't forget Newtons third law here because these shoes are only going to dampen/reduce the force a runner can put into the ground, which is in turn less efficient. So I would guess that at best the net outcome for these product in terms of performance benefit is zero.
The "one race shoe" from a marketing standpoint was done by Nike 20 years ago. Big meh. Honestly I wouldn't even really care because people get sucked in to buying far too expensive, stupid stuff they don't need and won't help them all the time (perfect example old white men and road bikes) - except for how blatantly hypocritical and contradictory this is of the brands "pioneers in sustainability" "pledge" which is just straight bullsh-t.
Feeling better after your rant?
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another data point wrote:
I'll wait to see how these seem to be working in the real world (as I did with the OG Nike supershoes), but I'll probably buy them if they look legit. As a master's runner in my early 40s who is very close to the 2:30 barrier in the marathon, a marginal $250 is 100% worth it to me if it puts me in the best position to do that. How many bullets do I really have left in the chamber?
Not many, go for it!
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sdfiojsdoifsdj wrote:
this thing would have to PR a few minutes in the marathon against the vapor/alphafly for it to be worth it.
You predicted today's world record without realizing it.
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Keeping It Real wrote:
Can't wait until I can get a pair!
It will be the perfect match for my Tracksmith Organic Merino Wool Predawn Warmup Suit with matching Headband (a steal at $480).
Once I am properly warmed up using my Apple Next Gen Watch ($320) as a heart rate monitor and timer, I'll suit up with my $110 Tracksmith 3.25" Kwikdry Ventilated "Run Hard, Run Strong" shorts with 5 pockets to carry my $35 Energy Plus Bars and Gels.
Up top, my Nike "Free the World" $95 singlet made by Indigenous People of China, of which $5 will go to support the battle of Manmade Global Warming.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot! My workout today is 2x100m (30 sec), 300m jog incorporating lunges, foot rises, jumps, and Australia Aborigines skips and hops.
I will then upload my workout to my $800 a month coach at AtalantaNYC.
It's great to be a runner these days!
Is this Patrick Bateman’s race morning routine?
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Yomamma wrote:
The problem is, people will pay for it. This is just a litmus test in my opinion. The amount of gained advantage with this shoe isn’t going to be that big. This to me is a shoe for the elite of the elite. Cool look, but stupid money and will just drive prices up on other models.
Did you just say "cool look"??? lol what the heck. The one thing nobody can say about that shoe is that it looks cool haha. It looks very dumb but they ain't paying $500 for looks, they're paying that money to get faster times.
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Capitalism is out of control in the west because the public are mugs and just accept it.
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Yomamma wrote:
The problem is, people will pay for it. This is just a litmus test in my opinion. The amount of gained advantage with this shoe isn’t going to be that big. This to me is a shoe for the elite of the elite. Cool look, but stupid money and will just drive prices up on other models.
This post got 101 upvotes to 2 downvotes. It's a crow banquet!
Forget about plates, energy rods, and foam types, 138 grams is no small feet.10 -
Money Changes Everything wrote:
Running is going down the same route as cycling. At any club ride, you will see chubby dentists and middle aged financial advisors pedaling $12K+pro level bikes because they can afford them and they look pretty rad rolling along at 18 MPH on a Saturday morning. w
Your local road dawgs won't be rocking this shoe to break 15 at a local 5K. It will be some monied masters athlete looking to break 22 minutes and make the 50-54 podium.
The capitalist system is built on feeling superior to your fellow human, what's new? You should see how much women spend on a damn candle.
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I don’t understand the price tag. It’s not just to comply with WA regulations. The “shoes must be publicly available” rule was reversed right after it was established. If there isn’t a new foam and they are reducing outsole to basically nothing to cut down the weight, then why is it so expensive?
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Mocazilla wrote:
The biggest statement would be if someone at Berlin wearing these beats EK while running sub 2:02.
What if someone wearing these at Berlin broke the World Record by over 2 minutes and then took off their shoe and kissed it at the finish...
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yawn 23430 wrote:
Dumb question, perhaps, but what's up with the fact that there are no carbon rods in these shoes?
Is Adidas saying that carbon plates/rods aren't the bees knees anymore? If you're looking to break a world record, are you better off simply having a slightly lighter shoe? Is Adidas saying the real advantage is in the foam? Or the thick sole?
It has always been about the foam. Always.
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Money Changes Everything wrote:
I'm getting to the point in my 50-54 age group career where I might pay $500 to break 22 and hit the podium...
20 -
138g wrote:
yawn 23430 wrote:
Dumb question, perhaps, but what's up with the fact that there are no carbon rods in these shoes?
Is Adidas saying that carbon plates/rods aren't the bees knees anymore? If you're looking to break a world record, are you better off simply having a slightly lighter shoe? Is Adidas saying the real advantage is in the foam? Or the thick sole?
It has always been about the foam. Always.
ADIZERO ADIOS PRO EVO 1 has EnergyRods:
"ENERGYRODS limit energy loss"
This post was edited 5 minutes after it was posted.20 -
Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
Nothing adidas did here with respect to the foam is that innovative or special.
Adidas managed to produce the lightest race shoe with a relatively high cushion and good response. Shoe weight, plays a huge role in running economy. Also cushion protects the muscles, especially importatnt in a marathon.
So what Adidas did was to produce a World Record Shoe (Assefa), and the shoe does not need to last longer than for one Marathon to fullfill its purpose.
The concept is brilliant, because Adidas gets a high price for a shoe which last short, meaning people need to buy soon a new one.
Morally reprehensible, but a reality.This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.50
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