Try to keep the threads on topic. This thread is for discussion about Wiley's potential and whether she can be the next Athing Mu. If you want to talk about Huntington/PEDs, do so in this Huntington/PEDs thread. Some talk about how one may doubt the legitimacy of the performances is allowed as they are in all threads on letsrun, but we do not need every thread going down the Huntington/PED path.
We also plan on requiring registration on Wiley related threads to cut down on the volume of posts and to keep the same few people from posting voluminous amounts of pro or anti Wiley posts.
And if you do post, please do no post false information or impersonate someone else. A possible act of felonious identity deception occurred in one of the threads on Tuesday and we are happy to cooperate with the authorities if they ask. Posts like those are less likely to happen if we require registration.
In terms of the second part of your post, I think you are correct that Wiley has made greater improvements. And she is only 19 which makes her by far the top recruit of every sponsor. Willis and Whittaker stalled out. Tuohy is done improving. Valby is a wildcard. She is very talented but can get injured. She is worth the risk because she seems to have have potential.
Yep, like I said, I don't know how the bannings work. Regardless, the idea is that hopefully soon, one of us won't be able to post from our computer, phone, whatever(which of course, having posted only 4-5 times ever, is no big deal to you).
Needless to say, lying by calling me NJ is off-the-charts offensive. I'm not. I'll follow up with Wejo and/or Rojo if they do not see the thread I posted. Take care!
Mu is much better at the 400 than Wiley. I assume that every fan knows that. Wiley is much better at the 1500. I assume that every fan knows that also. Mu is better across the 3 events.
How many times has Mu actually seriously contested the 1500? Not many. Prior to her run at the USTFA in July, it was more than likely 2021 when she was still at TAMU. I would feel pretty confident that Mu would be better than Wiley in the 1500 if she were to be serious about it.
Kersee may not voice it but he knows that Mu is a 400/800 runner and not a 800/1500 runner.
I rue the day that had started following AW threads and killing off meaningful minutes that could have been used more productively, say grooming my dog, washing my saucepans, or staring blankly into space. And yet, stupidly, here I am...
In terms of the second part of your post, I think you are correct that Wiley has made greater improvements. And she is only 19 which makes her by far the top recruit of every sponsor. Willis and Whittaker stalled out. Tuohy is done improving. Valby is a wildcard. She is very talented but can get injured. She is worth the risk because she seems to have have potential.
What I am looking for is 800/1500 runners that have made such large improvements in such a short period of time. Find one.
You bring Tuohy and Valby up as examples. Neither is an 800/1500 runner. Tuohy knows that the 1500 is not her strength but she undoubtedly will improve there - not by a lot, but she will improve. Her strength is the 3000 on up and she is far from plateauing there. Valby isn't done improving either.
Let's compare apples to apples and find me a runner that has improved as much s Wiley has in as short of a period of time. You seem to be under the assumption that such a large improvement points to Wiley's talent. It doesn't. It does, though, raise a lot of questions.
PS-Tuohy will have the same significant improvement that runners like Monson have had. She is just wisely avoiding the shortcuts. She is not the one that has to worry about Wiley potentially cheating her out of a spot. The 800/1500 runners on the otherhand. Good luck. PEDs are very powerful.
Adjacent events are used to compare runners. Who is the best sprinter? Who is the best distance runner? Track and Field News is rhe keeper of records and the have one that spans 100 to 400.
Damn, seeing Rai Benjamin being the 15th best combined sprinter while being a 400m hurdler is kinda wild. His 100m PR is better than Terrence Trammell, and he's a 110m hurdler. The only flat 100m runner I can think of that's faster than that, as a 110m hurdler, is Omar McLeod. I wonder what he could do in that event if he trained specifically for it. 🤔
In terms of the second part of your post, I think you are correct that Wiley has made greater improvements. And she is only 19 which makes her by far the top recruit of every sponsor. Willis and Whittaker stalled out. Tuohy is done improving. Valby is a wildcard. She is very talented but can get injured. She is worth the risk because she seems to have have potential.
What I am looking for is 800/1500 runners that have made such large improvements in such a short period of time. Find one.
You bring Tuohy and Valby up as examples. Neither is an 800/1500 runner. Tuohy knows that the 1500 is not her strength but she undoubtedly will improve there - not by a lot, but she will improve. Her strength is the 3000 on up and she is far from plateauing there. Valby isn't done improving either.
Let's compare apples to apples and find me a runner that has improved as much s Wiley has in as short of a period of time. You seem to be under the assumption that such a large improvement points to Wiley's talent. It doesn't. It does, though, raise a lot of questions.
Wiley had the 4th best combined 1500/1600/mile high school time in the U.S. She improved approximately 8.7 seconds (4:07.9 ==> 3:59.16) in the 1500 in the last 14 months (June, 2022 ==> September, 2023)
Sampling of some big imrpovements below. I don't know that any of the women below or Wiley have doped. I choose to believe no until there is definitive proof.
Jennifer Simpson improved more than 10 seconds every year for three years straight in the 1500 from 2006 to 2009. Even if you discount the first year improvement due to a better mile time earlier, the subsequent two years are huge improvements. Laura Muir improved over 20 seconds from 2011 to 2012 and then another 10 seconds from 2012 to 2013 and then another 7.69 seconds from 2013 to 2014. She also improved 6.7 seconds in the 800m from 2012 to 2013. Sarah Healy improved over 13 seconds from 2015 to 2016 then another 8 seconds from 2016 to 2017 and then another 10+ seconds from 2017 to 2018 (to a time close to what Wiley had in high school). She also improved almost 6 seconds from 2017 to 2018. Kate Murphy improved more than 20 seconds (as best I can tell) from 2015 to 2016 and ran a high school time faster than Wiley. Emily Mackay improved 18 seconds from 2018 to 2019 then 10 seconds in 2 years from 2019 to 2021 then another 8.4 seconds from 2021 to 2022. Finally she improved another 8.98 seconds from 2022 to 2023. Athing Mu improved 15 seconds in the 800m from 2016 to 2019 and then another 6+ seconds from 2019 to 2021. Alexa Efraimson improved 13 seconds from 2013 to 2014. Nikki Hiltz improved 7.6 seconds from 2018 to 2019. Ellie Purrier improved almost 7 seconds from 2018 to 2019. Sinclaire Johnson improved 6+ seconds in the 800m from 2017 to 2018 and more than 4 seconds the following year. She also improved nearly 8 seconds in the 1500m from 2018 to 2019. I'm sure there are many more. The bottom line is many runners have years with limited improvements and years with big improvements. Unless one is privy as to the goings on of training, injuries, etc. it is just a guess as to whether their using drugs. Some on the board believe that all elites are doping. I think the most are not.
Mu is much better at the 400 than Wiley. I assume that every fan knows that. Wiley is much better at the 1500. I assume that every fan knows that also. Mu is better across the 3 events.
Much better at the 1500 you say? Do tell me more about their only head to head matchup in that event. At the US championships with a WC spot on the line. How did that turn out? We can all play this comparison game.
I tend to go with rates of improvement that seem too good to be true signify doping. Such as as a runner going from the high 4:30s late in her junior year to suddenly one of the fastest 1600/mile times ever after never previously hinting at that ability. Of course when it is done at an obscure open race with her pro coach pacing her it looked even more shady. Or going from 4:11 to 4:03 to 3:59 as a college freshman, together with 2:04 to 1:57 in the 800m, suddenly being able to break college 1500 record and running the second fastest college 800m at 19. It was not just the rate of improvement but the outlier times she immediately progressed to. Even if I did not know all the details about her coaches I would call bs, but of course we do. You can cherrypick the data and credulously believe what you want. But I have bridges to sell you.
In terms of the second part of your post, I think you are correct that Wiley has made greater improvements. And she is only 19 which makes her by far the top recruit of every sponsor. Willis and Whittaker stalled out. Tuohy is done improving. Valby is a wildcard. She is very talented but can get injured. She is worth the risk because she seems to have have potential.
Willis and Whittaker were over raced during indoor and had some freshman year adjustments at a demanding academic school, Stanford. They have very good speed (51-52 ish on the 4x4) and they will be back.
People could go broke betting against Tuohy. She always rises up from her setbacks even stronger, she is only getting started. Valby is a great competitor and hopefully she can overcome the injuries.
You are missing another big prospect. Michaela Rose. Go look her up - she has a great future.
Rose is solid. Willis akd Whittaker are chubby. Theynare done like Cain. Tuohy is too big to be elite and she doesn't have great speed. Wiley is in a different league. She is world class already amd she is built like an elite runner. She is poised. She is calm in her races. She is mature. She is the entire package.
Yes. Much better. I don't play games. They have PRs. You can play your what if games but I go with the facts.
Here’s what I know: one of these two athletes qualified for the WC in her third best event (1500) that she rarely even runs. Generously gave up her spot since she already had a wildcard for another event that she won at the WC the previous year.