Woman here. your wife was probably not that attracted to you to begin with or you don't really know how to get her going, which was why you had sex sparingly in the relationship. You probably checked some important boxes for her; good job, nice person, good family, good values etc, but she didn't find you appealing sexually.
Women have gotten good at getting what they need on their own. I hate this because I do feel like men who find themselves in these situations are kind of used. They just want a wedding and a husband a nice guy to come home to, but they aren't satisfied by them and to them it's perfectly fine.
I'd say you can do two things. 1. figure out how to get better in bed and be more satisfying to her. 2. get out of the marriage if that isn't helping.
Thanks for your honest and good post. Especially the second paragraph. Nowadays women really don't need men in that aspect--I know many women in their 20s and 30s with great jobs and $ and they go from guy to guy but don't necessarily need them other than for a fling. They don't need a man's $ any more or don't have to be dependent (which is great) but it also makes it honestly awkward sometimes, especially if they earn more than the guy. Most guys or women won't even talk much about it if there is a financial imbalance where she earns more than him--and that also affects the bedroom relationships and friendships/social circles (networks and jobs as well). If you're a guy it's good to have a lot of money just in case and some social clout, to be truly blunt, so that you don't feel weird around power women who have more $ than you...it makes you equal to them.
With 3rd-wave feminism, women can truly have it all and can afford to be picky.
That is why it's hard for guys on online dating--women rule the selection process.
If by "have it all" you mean drinking $40 pinot alone with their cats on the weekend, then sure a lot of these women have it all. I've slept with these boss b!tch-types before - for how independent they claim to be, they sure tend to get clingy.
There is a difference between attraction and arousal. She picked you because you were a long term “attractive” mate, but you were never arousing to her (aside from maybe the honeymoon phase).
You need to go buy the book “no more mr nice guy”. It literally is about men in sexless marriages becoming more arousing.
I could write a 5k word response on this, but just go get the book.
Thanks for your honest and good post. Especially the second paragraph. Nowadays women really don't need men in that aspect--I know many women in their 20s and 30s with great jobs and $ and they go from guy to guy but don't necessarily need them other than for a fling. They don't need a man's $ any more or don't have to be dependent (which is great) but it also makes it honestly awkward sometimes, especially if they earn more than the guy. Most guys or women won't even talk much about it if there is a financial imbalance where she earns more than him--and that also affects the bedroom relationships and friendships/social circles (networks and jobs as well). If you're a guy it's good to have a lot of money just in case and some social clout, to be truly blunt, so that you don't feel weird around power women who have more $ than you...it makes you equal to them.
With 3rd-wave feminism, women can truly have it all and can afford to be picky.
That is why it's hard for guys on online dating--women rule the selection process.
If by "have it all" you mean drinking $40 pinot alone with their cats on the weekend, then sure a lot of these women have it all. I've slept with these boss b!tch-types before - for how independent they claim to be, they sure tend to get clingy.
Indeed. Note that she says "women in their 20s and 30s". After the independent stage comes the regret stage because they realise their independence isn't that fun after a while and they want a relationship. By then they're 40 and now either all men they like are gone already or not interested in them because they're not looking for bossy 40 year olds who have a track record of +30 "flings".
Like it or not, but womean peak early in life where men peak later. Doesn't matter if this is reasonable or not, that's just the way it is.
If by "have it all" you mean drinking $40 pinot alone with their cats on the weekend, then sure a lot of these women have it all. I've slept with these boss b!tch-types before - for how independent they claim to be, they sure tend to get clingy.
Indeed. Note that she says "women in their 20s and 30s". After the independent stage comes the regret stage because they realise their independence isn't that fun after a while and they want a relationship. By then they're 40 and now either all men they like are gone already or not interested in them because they're not looking for bossy 40 year olds who have a track record of +30 "flings".
Like it or not, but womean peak early in life where men peak later. Doesn't matter if this is reasonable or not, that's just the way it is.
Lessons will be learned sooner or later.
I'm married but I know plenty of single women. I'm pretty sure their lives don't consist of drinking pinot and petting cats. They seem to hold down jobs, travel, socialise with friends and do sport or other hobbies. Some of them are divorced, some never married. Compared to a lot of married women I know, they have way better lives. They aren't fried to a bean running after men AND kids, or a "nurse with a purse" to some peripatetic lodger. The unluckiest are the single moms who are left doing all the childcare and paying most or all of the costs.
Relationships with men are risky - the idea that for women it's a choice between married paradise and wine and cats makes you sound like a dinosaur. Do you really think women believe that sort of stuff and think "oooh I better suffocate my personality and get married to trucker guy and pop out 3 kids before 30 JUST I CASE I'm no longer desirable to a random on the Internet who sleeps around with any woman desperate enough? Many, many women, an increasing number of them, are happier without a man in their lives. Many are not that bothered about kids. Some go it alone just fine.
Why would any woman want to get married to you? Life with you would be miserable. If all you can offer is the threat of wine and cats, well thats... Well thanks for giving me free comedy.
If you are really that afraid of being alone that you have to denigrate women, see a therapist to help you stop being so frightened.
As for the OP, he chose this woman knowing her attitude towards sex with him. I wonder if he didn't have many choices so just married somebody willing, thinking he could cheat because neither of them are that into each other. I think he would be advised to think about why he is making poor life choices and what he is projecting towards other people. It almost sounds like a marriage of two strangers. Maybe he should consider wine and cats?
The "lesson" is that men can kill us or be violent and hurt us if we make a poor decision in who to get married to or have a relationship with, or if we are just generally unlucky. Or they can mentally abuse us. So its just more reliable for women with a reasonable brain to avoid men who show any signs of bad behaviour, hating women, etc. and to have our own careers so we make enough money to live on without a man. Basically we are just trying to stay alive and safe! Being attractive to 40 year old men the same age of us isn't as big a consideration as you think.
So the OP is only worried about not getting enough sex in his marriage. Many women are worried about staying safe. So have a good think about why we avoid some men who show us all their red flags, because we are sure going to be blamed if they hurt us later on!
Woman here. your wife was probably not that attracted to you to begin with or you don't really know how to get her going, which was why you had sex sparingly in the relationship. You probably checked some important boxes for her; good job, nice person, good family, good values etc, but she didn't find you appealing sexually.
Women have gotten good at getting what they need on their own. I hate this because I do feel like men who find themselves in these situations are kind of used. They just want a wedding and a husband a nice guy to come home to, but they aren't satisfied by them and to them it's perfectly fine.
I'd say you can do two things. 1. figure out how to get better in bed and be more satisfying to her. 2. get out of the marriage if that isn't helping.
Thanks for your honest and good post. Especially the second paragraph. Nowadays women really don't need men in that aspect--I know many women in their 20s and 30s with great jobs and $ and they go from guy to guy but don't necessarily need them other than for a fling. They don't need a man's $ any more or don't have to be dependent (which is great) but it also makes it honestly awkward sometimes, especially if they earn more than the guy. Most guys or women won't even talk much about it if there is a financial imbalance where she earns more than him--and that also affects the bedroom relationships and friendships/social circles (networks and jobs as well). If you're a guy it's good to have a lot of money just in case and some social clout, to be truly blunt, so that you don't feel weird around power women who have more $ than you...it makes you equal to them.
With 3rd-wave feminism, women can truly have it all and can afford to be picky.
That is why it's hard for guys on online dating--women rule the selection process.
Women can “have it all” until they suddenly realize in their 30s that they desperately want children, the stability of a husband instead of a series of sex partners, and to be taken care of instead of working until they die.
These are perfectly normal things for women to want. They used to seek them out at a fairly young age, say early 20s.
But second wave feminism and the opportunities it has afforded women hasn’t made these urges go away. It has caused women to delay seeking them, and that can be a serious problem. It’s harder to have children in your mid-30s, it’s also harder to find a good husband. Statistically, having large numbers of sexual partners makes it harder for women to stay married.
Indeed. Note that she says "women in their 20s and 30s". After the independent stage comes the regret stage because they realise their independence isn't that fun after a while and they want a relationship. By then they're 40 and now either all men they like are gone already or not interested in them because they're not looking for bossy 40 year olds who have a track record of +30 "flings".
Like it or not, but womean peak early in life where men peak later. Doesn't matter if this is reasonable or not, that's just the way it is.
Lessons will be learned sooner or later.
I'm married but I know plenty of single women. I'm pretty sure their lives don't consist of drinking pinot and petting cats. They seem to hold down jobs, travel, socialise with friends and do sport or other hobbies. Some of them are divorced, some never married. Compared to a lot of married women I know, they have way better lives. They aren't fried to a bean running after men AND kids, or a "nurse with a purse" to some peripatetic lodger. The unluckiest are the single moms who are left doing all the childcare and paying most or all of the costs.
Relationships with men are risky - the idea that for women it's a choice between married paradise and wine and cats makes you sound like a dinosaur. Do you really think women believe that sort of stuff and think "oooh I better suffocate my personality and get married to trucker guy and pop out 3 kids before 30 JUST I CASE I'm no longer desirable to a random on the Internet who sleeps around with any woman desperate enough? Many, many women, an increasing number of them, are happier without a man in their lives. Many are not that bothered about kids. Some go it alone just fine.
Why would any woman want to get married to you? Life with you would be miserable. If all you can offer is the threat of wine and cats, well thats... Well thanks for giving me free comedy.
If you are really that afraid of being alone that you have to denigrate women, see a therapist to help you stop being so frightened.
As for the OP, he chose this woman knowing her attitude towards sex with him. I wonder if he didn't have many choices so just married somebody willing, thinking he could cheat because neither of them are that into each other. I think he would be advised to think about why he is making poor life choices and what he is projecting towards other people. It almost sounds like a marriage of two strangers. Maybe he should consider wine and cats?
Geez lady, you’re no help at all. Your anger doesn’t educate anybody. Are you intentionally trying to troll and provoke people? Been awhile since I’ve seen someone use so many stereotypes in a single post. Truckers, dinosaurs, peripatetic lodgers, “life with you would be miserable”, your post has more straw men than what you were responding to.
Thanks for your honest and good post. Especially the second paragraph. Nowadays women really don't need men in that aspect--I know many women in their 20s and 30s with great jobs and $ and they go from guy to guy but don't necessarily need them other than for a fling. They don't need a man's $ any more or don't have to be dependent (which is great) but it also makes it honestly awkward sometimes, especially if they earn more than the guy. Most guys or women won't even talk much about it if there is a financial imbalance where she earns more than him--and that also affects the bedroom relationships and friendships/social circles (networks and jobs as well). If you're a guy it's good to have a lot of money just in case and some social clout, to be truly blunt, so that you don't feel weird around power women who have more $ than you...it makes you equal to them.
With 3rd-wave feminism, women can truly have it all and can afford to be picky.
That is why it's hard for guys on online dating--women rule the selection process.
Women can “have it all” until they suddenly realize in their 30s that they desperately want children, the stability of a husband instead of a series of sex partners, and to be taken care of instead of working until they die.
These are perfectly normal things for women to want. They used to seek them out at a fairly young age, say early 20s.
But second wave feminism and the opportunities it has afforded women hasn’t made these urges go away. It has caused women to delay seeking them, and that can be a serious problem. It’s harder to have children in your mid-30s, it’s also harder to find a good husband. Statistically, having large numbers of sexual partners makes it harder for women to stay married.
Its actually harder to find a good husband at a young age in the past. Due to dating apps, men not wishing to settle down, date multiple women, cheat, etc. If you are a woman expecting to get married and have children in your twenties, then you are going to be quite unusual or maybe live in a very small town with a very settled population. Or marry an older man, but then that might mean taking on somebody's else kids part time plus the appearance might not be so good and that isn't for everybody. It can be difficult dealing with someone from a different generation and with different cultural references, and then them likely being in ill health and unable to do stuff when retirement eventually does come.
I don't think its all due to women wanting to settle down later. Its people in general. I don't know anybody who even got married before 28/29 and most were in their early to mid thirties. Finding a man willing to get married and have kids in his mid twenties is pretty much impossible. Even if you devote all of your free time to "seeking them out" - was that a thing? Didn't men have to seek women out in the past?
Nearly all of my female friends have been let go by their boyfriends and then struggled to find another one because men don't want to commit. I think theres this tendency to blame women for everything. Men ghosting, ending relationships on a whim, disappearing, and most commonly, refusing to commit to even being a boyfriend are where its at now. I know there must be women who behave like that too but women are less sex driven than men and we are socialised to get married and have kids more than men, so I'd be surprised if this was all due to women. Women getting blamed for ending things with guys who cheat, or who treat them badly or unreliable isn't the same as "women delaying getting married/motherhood". Having kids with someone who won't even call themselves your boyfriend isn't a great thing to do.
I think the OP is asking people for permission to cheat. I think he needs to post more information about his relationship and the reasons he chose to marry a woman who he didn't have much sex with and why he expected that to change on marriage. The other reasons he married her must have been really important to him, so why are they no longer important?
I don't think its all due to women wanting to settle down later. Its people in general. I don't know anybody who even got married before 28/29 and most were in their early to mid thirties. Ditto. Finding a man willing to get married and have kids in his mid twenties is pretty much impossible. Even if you devote all of your free time to "seeking them out" - was that a thing? Didn't men have to seek women out in the past? Nearly all of my female friends have been let go by their boyfriends and then struggled to find another one because men don't want to commit. I think theres this tendency to blame women for everything. Men ghosting, ending relationships on a whim, disappearing, and most commonly, refusing to commit to even being a boyfriend are where its at now. Agreed. As a 30 year old man, it's incredible how many guys I know between 28-40 I have who have been in long term relationships for 5+ years, who, when asked, will insist it's not endgame. On multiple occasions I've seen these guys end their relationships. The first instance of this began 5 years ago when a friend, then 30, dumped his 29 year old girlfriend of 6 years, spent the next 3 years dating, before finding and marrying a now 26 year old.
I have another friend, about to turn 32, who is planning on dumping his wonderful girlfriend of 11 years, now 30. He claims he's been checking out of the relationship for 4 years, but the past 18 months have seen him transition to 'seeing her as a sister'. His contention is that if he brings kids into the situation it'll be terrible for everyone involved. My issue (which I've expressed, but then moved past because it won't help matters and he's guilty enough as it is) is that the '4 years' is more like 6 or 7, and I remember using the above example as a cautionary tale back when that happened. Didn't change things. He took the comfortably route, and now its his gf who'll be left blindsided. This is just par for the course. Cowardice and comfort leading to case studies in wasting everybody's time.
The other side of this phenomenon is what I've had a front road seat to with my 28 year old sister, and her group of extremely close childhood friends, and that's 'settling'. Post #70 in this thread rather bluntly spells it out. And frankly, for some, they're settling hard. It's a perfect storm of social convention (it's 'marriage age' I need to be married) - which is no doubt informed by biological reality (fertility) - and pragmatism (basically the environment you've described - the guys with options just don't want to settle in the majority of cases, and there are nice guys with good jobs who feel like they've won the lottery).
I think the OP is asking people for permission to cheat. I think he needs to post more information about his relationship and the reasons he chose to marry a woman who he didn't have much sex with and why he expected that to change on marriage. The other reasons he married her must have been really important to him, so why are they no longer important? Agreed.
^
This post was edited 15 minutes after it was posted.
Reason provided:
typos
The regretful 40 year old woman is an incel myth. They don't wish they settled down with 20 year old you, nerds.
The only regretful people I know are those that married the first boy/girl they found.
The good old "incel" response.
The regretful 40 year old woman is not a myth, it's a future. This idea of strong, independent woman who don't need a man is a pretty recent idea (fourth-wave feminism).
Crazy how the women in this thread apparently see a relationship as "popping out children", and men as being abusive, violent, killers, women haters, etc. Is that really how feminism has brainwashed women to think? It's kinda sad really. In any "group" there are individuals who are like that, just as there are women who are like that.
Crazy how the women in this thread apparently see a relationship as "popping out children", and men as being abusive, violent, killers, women haters, etc. Is that really how feminism has brainwashed women to think? It's kinda sad really. In any "group" there are individuals who are like that, just as there are women who are like that.
Fortunately, I think they're an online niche, akin to (ironically) incels.
Unfortunately, it comes from Critical Theory feminism, which is being taught to many young people as self-evident truth. Most see through it though.
Men in a sexless marriage, what do you do? My wife and I have been together for 5 years, and married for 2. We had sex sparingly when we dated, but I always thought marriage would light the spark. It’s been a year and a half since we had sex. She has no desire, doesn’t care, and has a low sex drive. I feel lost, alone, and confidence is at an all time low. What do I do
Woman here. your wife was probably not that attracted to you to begin with or you don't really know how to get her going, which was why you had sex sparingly in the relationship. You probably checked some important boxes for her; good job, nice person, good family, good values etc, but she didn't find you appealing sexually.
Women have gotten good at getting what they need on their own. I hate this because I do feel like men who find themselves in these situations are kind of used. They just want a wedding and a husband a nice guy to come home to, but they aren't satisfied by them and to them it's perfectly fine.
I'd say you can do two things. 1. figure out how to get better in bed and be more satisfying to her. 2. get out of the marriage if that isn't helping.
This kind of makes sense now. Damn (some) women are worse than I thought.
The regretful 40 year old woman is an incel myth. They don't wish they settled down with 20 year old you, nerds.
The only regretful people I know are those that married the first boy/girl they found.
The good old "incel" response.
The regretful 40 year old woman is not a myth, it's a future. This idea of strong, independent woman who don't need a man is a pretty recent idea (fourth-wave feminism).
A lot of young men seem to delight in the idea of turning the tables on all these 20 something women and think they're going to come running in a few years time. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!
4th wave feminists are more anti-capitalist than previous generations, women are not busting a gut to be a girlboss anymore.
Crazy how the women in this thread apparently see a relationship as "popping out children", and men as being abusive, violent, killers, women haters, etc. Is that really how feminism has brainwashed women to think? It's kinda sad really. In any "group" there are individuals who are like that, just as there are women who are like that.
Fortunately, I think they're an online niche, akin to (ironically) incels.
Unfortunately, it comes from Critical Theory feminism, which is being taught to many young people as self-evident truth. Most see through it though.
So they're made for each other. To each their own (I guess).
The regretful 40 year old woman is not a myth, it's a future. This idea of strong, independent woman who don't need a man is a pretty recent idea (fourth-wave feminism).
A lot of young men seem to delight in the idea of turning the tables on all these 20 something women and think they're going to come running in a few years time. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!
4th wave feminists are more anti-capitalist than previous generations, women are not busting a gut to be a girlboss anymore.
I hope so for the women who are now part of this "independence" wave. I don't think it's a bad thing to be independent as an individual. I just don't see why independence and a relationship can't go hand in hand. This whole idea of women not needing men is just ridiculous to me. I don't see men saying this, because it's an obvious truth. Both have their qualities.
Indeed. Note that she says "women in their 20s and 30s". After the independent stage comes the regret stage because they realise their independence isn't that fun after a while and they want a relationship. By then they're 40 and now either all men they like are gone already or not interested in them because they're not looking for bossy 40 year olds who have a track record of +30 "flings".
Like it or not, but womean peak early in life where men peak later. Doesn't matter if this is reasonable or not, that's just the way it is.
Lessons will be learned sooner or later.
I'm married but I know plenty of single women. I'm pretty sure their lives don't consist of drinking pinot and petting cats. They seem to hold down jobs, travel, socialise with friends and do sport or other hobbies. Some of them are divorced, some never married. Compared to a lot of married women I know, they have way better lives. They aren't fried to a bean running after men AND kids, or a "nurse with a purse" to some peripatetic lodger. The unluckiest are the single moms who are left doing all the childcare and paying most or all of the costs.
Relationships with men are risky - the idea that for women it's a choice between married paradise and wine and cats makes you sound like a dinosaur. Do you really think women believe that sort of stuff and think "oooh I better suffocate my personality and get married to trucker guy and pop out 3 kids before 30 JUST I CASE I'm no longer desirable to a random on the Internet who sleeps around with any woman desperate enough? Many, many women, an increasing number of them, are happier without a man in their lives. Many are not that bothered about kids. Some go it alone just fine.
Why would any woman want to get married to you? Life with you would be miserable. If all you can offer is the threat of wine and cats, well thats... Well thanks for giving me free comedy.
If you are really that afraid of being alone that you have to denigrate women, see a therapist to help you stop being so frightened.
As for the OP, he chose this woman knowing her attitude towards sex with him. I wonder if he didn't have many choices so just married somebody willing, thinking he could cheat because neither of them are that into each other. I think he would be advised to think about why he is making poor life choices and what he is projecting towards other people. It almost sounds like a marriage of two strangers. Maybe he should consider wine and cats?
You talk about how great single life is for middle-aged women and how terrible marriage is, yet you're supposedly married...
I was just saying what my experience has been, and so far my experience has validated the stereotype of the sad, lonely, borderline-alcoholic single woman in her 30's/40' with her pets. I've yet to meet a boss b!tch who seems TRULY content with her life. Yet to add insult to injury, they price themselves out of the dating market because they believe earning more money entitles them to a "higher quality" man. Good luck with that