Anyone want to train an older guy in the 800/1500?

If your aim is Nationals, then your plan seems reasonable. Balancing between getting race-sharp and while avoiding peaking too early is the most difficult aspect of training. It is very subjective and, IMHO, having a coach that knows you well really helps with this aspect. As this is your first season as a master athlete, you'll have to experiment a bit and see what works for you and what does not.

I mostly agree with what the previous poster said (although I am not sure about 1:55, I am thinking more 1:56-1:57, but that's just a quibble), in particular regarding not overdoing the workouts at this stage and peaking. 1) in my experience, peaking has strong mental or hormonal component: it is hard to remain "charged" for a large number of races, you have to pick your shots. After the main race of the season, especially after a good race, it is not unusual to crash and not being able to run another good race for a while. 2) right now, the only thing that can stop you from getting a podium at nationals (and possibly the top spot, as sub-2 is usually enough for the win) is an injury. The fittest you are, the most likely is that you can get injured. From now on, always keep something in the tank and stay in control during your workouts.

Good luck!

Thanks guys for all the input. It has been very helpful having you weigh in over the course of this cycle.

The sequence of workouts over the next 4 weeks I think I am sticking with is below.

This week -

* 8x1000 w/ 60s off + 4x200 w/ 90s off
* 1.5 @ LT1 + 4x400 w/ 5' off

Week 2 -

* 1.5 @ LT1 + 3x2x300 w/ 90s between reps and 4' between sets
* Race 800

Week 3 -
* 1.5 @ LT + 2x(500/300) w/ 60s between reps and 8' between sets

* 1500 + 5x1000 + 1500 @ LT w/ 60s off + 4x200 w/ 90s off

Week 4-

* 1.5 @ LT1 + 8x200 w/ 60s off
* Race 800

Decent week. Workout Friday isn’t exactly what I wanted but not terrible either. I am going back and forth on whether to run the 800 or 400 next weekend. On the one hand I’d love another shot at the 8. On the other it would be nice to have an old man open 400 on the books. Thoughts?

M - 6 @ 7:26

T - 11 as 3 up + 8x1000 w/ 60s off + 4’ off + 4x200 w/ 90s off + down. 3:26/3:25/3:24/3:21/3:20/3:20/3:20/3:18 + 29/29/29/29.

W- 6 @ 7:26
Th - 5 @ 7:19 + 8x10s hill sprints

Fr - 6.5 as 2 up + 1.5 @ LT1 + 3x400 w/ 5’ off + 2 down. 5:40 + 58/58/58. Was going to do 4 but was pretty toasted after the third so called it.

Sa - 9 @ 7:19
Su - 2 up + 4x150 as 50 stride/50 hard/50 stride + 1 down.

Total - 48 miles

It is not a bad idea to race a 400. If there is enough time between the two events and the 400 is run first, maybe consider doubling?
If the 800 is run first, you could still double, but it would be hard to run a 400 close to your best and if you have raced really hard in the 800 there is some risk of injury in the 400.

i like the idea of not doing the same race distance back to back too often. thus, either a 400 or even 1500 would be great. in fact a 1500 following the 400, if the schedule allows for it, might be ideal.

decided to run the 800. Accomplished one of the big goals of the cycle which was getting under 2 minutes. Weather was 50 and rainy with pretty gusty conditions. I was in a competitive heat with lots of folks seeded right around 2 minutes. Definitely not used to running in a pack. Got out well but ran first lap mostly in lane 2 coming through in 58 or so. Made a move on the backstretch to take the lead but was nipped in the last few meters to finish second in the heat. There should be a video in a few days and will post when I get it.

M - 6 @ 7:42

T - 7 as 2 up + 1.5 @ 5:38 + 8x200 @ 29 flat average w/ 60s off + down

W - 6 @ 7:05
Th - 5 @ 7:26 + 4x10s hill sprints
Fr - 3 @ 6:56 + 2x200 @ 29/28 + 1 down

Sa - 2 up + 1:59.24 800m + 1 down

Su - 8 @ 7:15

Total - 40 miles

Good week. Best two workouts of the cycle for me both objectively and based on how they felt.

Tuesday workout felt easy enough but was the snappiest I have run this session. Surprised by how decently the LT stuff has stuck around given I am only running 40-50 miles a week.

Friday workout was very hard. Took the 500 out harder than advisable (watch was between 26 and 27 at 200) and had to struggle to stay at or under 800 pace for the rest of the workout but was able to keep it together. If you asked me what I could run for a 500 flat out I’m not sure I would have guess much faster than 69 so pretty happy overall.

I feel like I am in a good spot going into next Saturday. Definitely think I can improve on my last race and if the stars align maybe get in the 1:57s. Still undecided about masters nationals. Have a lot going on in the non running portion of my life so will make the call on that next week.

M - 6 @ 7:25

T - 10.5 as 3 up + 8x1000 w/ 60s off + 5’ off + 2x200 w/ 90s off + down 3:24/3:23/3:22/3:20/3:19/3:18/3:18/3:15 + 28/28

W - 6 @ 7:22
Th - 5@ 7:13 + 6x10s hill sprints

Fr - 6 as 2 up + 1 @ 5:41 + 500/400/300/200/100 w/ 6’/5’/4’/2’ off + down. Hit 69 high/57 low/43 low/ 28 mid/14 mid.

Sa - 7 @ 7:11
Su - 2 up + 4x150 accelerating each 50 + 1 down

Total - 45 miles

Not a rook and/or midD guy. If you are still out there.

Looking for a workout tomorrow ahead of race Saturday evening. Trying to balance this potentially being my last race of the cycle vs. potentially extending through late July. If I was definitely going to July would probably have done 6x300 but that seems too tough if I really want to target Saturday. Any ideas?

Overall, your training schedule looks very good to me, so I am hesitant to recommend a specific workout. I am also not sure how fast you recover from workouts. Your volume suggests that you recover fairly fast. In general, believe that running 600s would be beneficial for you, because the is a distance you have not run much in workouts and it really helps practicing to run with lactic acid fatigue, but I don't think it would be a good idea to do a workout like this for the first time right before a race you care about.

If the plan is to target Saturday, I would just do 3x400s in 58 with 4 min rest. Don't go faster than 57-mid. Also, no hill sprints this week. On Thursday do a mile or two at 10K-half marathon pace followed by 2-4 200s @29-30 and you should be good to go.

In general, when it comes to what may potentially be the last race of the season, I would say most people are best served by keeping their overall volume the same and just barely reducing their quality of volume.

It's the energy/excitement of the race/environment that can have a huge effect on performance.

I think what mid D guy has suggested sounds reasonable, although if I hadn't read his post first my advice, in the spirit of keeping things consistent, would likely be to do a very similar workout to last week. But instead of 8 x 1000 bring it down to 5 x 1000 hitting those same times for the last 5 k's you did; 3:20 --> 3:15 then a few 200s in the 27/28 range.

I'd do the same with Thursday's hill sprints, bringing it down to 3-4 instead of 6.

Depending on how late your race is scheduled Saturday and how long you'll be in the car traveling to the venue, you may consider doing a light workout Saturday morning, similar to what mid D guy suggested for a Thursday workout. I tended to feel better in the evening when doing a light opener of sorts in the morning that just starts to make one wonder "am i doing too much before tonights race?"

Whatever you do, you're ready to run fast and I don't think anything you do this week is going to mess that up.

Thanks for the input. I ended up repeating a workout from earlier in the cycle.

1 mile @ LT1 + 5x300 w/ 2'/4'/2'/4 off. I feel like 3x400 takes a lot out of me (that is a long 100 meters between 300 and 400) and wanted to put in some work at 800 pace.

bit of a tangent, but have you considered cherry picking a HJ national championship? i just looked up last years results and if i'm not mistaken the winning height for the 35-39 age group was 4'1.25"!

the 25-29 AG was the only class among 25-49 with someone who went over 6'0", with most classes being won on a 5'9"/1.75 clearance.

point being, if you do end up deciding to do nationals, you might want to enter the HJ as well. can't hurt to be able to tell your kids you're a multi-national champ 😌

Gosh. I didn't even consider it. I am actually kind of curious what has happened to my vertical now that I have reduced volume and am focusing on faster stuff. Back when I was marathon training I tried to grab a basketball rim one day and it felt like my achilles was about to rupture.

I can't believe the winning height was 4'1". That is comical. It isn't even that much higher than a hurdle!

If you held a gun to my head I would put the over under at 5'8" right now but wouldn't be surprised if it was much lower.

5x300m is all good, this workout was not supposed to build fitness, but just to keep you race-sharp.

However, when you start your next training cycle, consider including a few workouts with 400m-600m repeats at faster than mile pace.

As you mentioned, the 100m after 300 can feel very long. This is because up to 300m your heart rate is not going to redline, you can basically run up to 300m as a long sprint. Once you get past 400m, the heart rate is going to max out and lactic acid accumulation is going to be substantial. It is a different type of workout. I suspect these workouts may put you out of your comfort zone (I used to hate them), but they could be beneficial for practicing running as lactic acid builds up.

Ya. I 100% agree with your take. In fairness I was doing 5-6x600 at slightly faster than mile with 2' off early in the build but I never really hit workouts like 3x600 w/ long recovery at 95-98% 800 pace. These seem very intimidating to me but seem like they are pretty important.

Closing this thread out (at least for awhile). I ended the cycle. Headed to India for a bit for work on dates likely overlapping nationals and also just kind of tired.

Starting back up again next week and planning on just doing a base building/5k like cycle but making sure to keep hill sprints and harder strides after LT work. Mainly just want to get volume up and get in some longer efforts to build some strength back up. I think I’ll probably do a 5k or two in the fall and the focus on running a good 1500 indoor. I convinced my wife to do a family trip to Scandinavia next summer and swing by masters worlds so will anchor the year on that.

MidD and notarook. Sincere thanks for following along in all of this and providing so much good advice.

Here is a YouTube video of my last race. It’s pretty mediocre camera work but you can see a bit. I’m the dude in the blue singlet who takes the lead in the second lap and gets passed at the end.

It's been great fun following your training. Best of luck!

Re-opening this thread. I haven’t really consistently run since the training block chronicled here. A new extremely high pressure job, lots of travel, some kid stuff and other life reasons have diverted my focus from running over the last year. There have been a number of false starts where I would get consistent for a few weeks but then would fall back out of it.

I think I am ready to get back at it. I miss being in shape and seeing a work colleague run a road mile over the weekend triggered something. There is also something about anonymous internet strangers potentially lurking that I am hoping will keep me honest.

Current state of affairs:

* 210 pounds

* 429 miles of running in 2024

* Large collection of spandex and super shoes that need to be dusted off

Goals:

* Break 5 in the mile by the end of the summer

* Break 4:35 in the mile during the indoor season

* Break 4:25 in the mile on my 40 birthday next April

I acknowledge this thread will not be particularly interesting for awhile (if ever) given I am basically a fat guy jogging around for the foreseeable future.

Thanks for your support.

Loved this thread last year, glad you're back into it!