One of my high school athletes wants to skip track to train for a half marathon

Interesting how this post turned out...

I've decided to offer to give him individual training throughout track season leading up to his half marathon. (I'll still have him run a 1600 and 3200 in indoor and outdoor at least once.) I'm confident I can build him up to at least 50 miles a week without him getting hurt. My ultimate goal is that we avoid injury and accomplish his goal for the half marathon while also developing him overall as a runner.

If anyone has any recommendations for half marathon build ups or workouts I'd greatly appreciate it. I have books such Daniels Running Formula, The Science of Running, The Lore of Running, and even have some Malmo and Tinman threads bookmarked.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Hurno. wrote:

Completely serious, longest run we've done until reading your post was 150m @ mile pace. We did 400m @ mile pace today.

"stronger, more mature ones, three or more times what they're doing."

Okay so 4 times 150m is 600m. I'll have them do 600m @ 2 mile pace Thursday. Their rest days will be 15m sprints.

Does this sound good?

"mile" and "2 mile" pace is completely hypothetical btw, they're never ran that far without walking.

Admit it. You think you're underpaid for coaching and want to get practice done in less than 30 minutes.

No, but that part about getting practice done in 30 minutes cracked me up. 5 mins warm-up, 10 - 20 minutes workout, and 5 minutes stretching. 40 mins procrastinating ruins it though.

HRE wrote:

Hurno. wrote:

Completely serious, longest run we've done until reading your post was 150m @ mile pace. We did 400m @ mile pace today.

"stronger, more mature ones, three or more times what they're doing."

Okay so 4 times 150m is 600m. I'll have them do 600m @ 2 mile pace Thursday. Their rest days will be 15m sprints.

Does this sound good?

"mile" and "2 mile" pace is completely hypothetical btw, they're never ran that far without walking.

No, this does not sound good nor does it sound like someone to take seriously.

Come on, man! That's rude...I was genuinely asking for sound advice. Help a brother out?

HRE wrote:

If he just sent them off for a 25 minute run they'd be fitter and he could be done in under 30 minutes.

Sorry, just saw this. Will add 25 minute run. How do I stop them from walking? They will just walk 15 - 20 minutes if I tell them to do 25' running.

Okay, see my comment about having them run for 25 minutes a day. That would be a big improvement, 30-45 minutes would be better, have a session of hills or some sort of repeats, 400s, 600s, miles, "a lot of eyewash" as Lydiard would say, in a week with one race and no reps, maybe a few strides, if there's more than one race.

Hurno. wrote:

HRE wrote:

If he just sent them off for a 25 minute run they'd be fitter and he could be done in under 30 minutes.

Sorry, just saw this. Will add 25 minute run. How do I stop them from walking? They will just walk 15 - 20 minutes if I tell them to do 25' running.

Don't let them race if they walk unless they're new and genuinely unable to run for 25 minutes. If that's a real problem have them run on the track or do laps around a field where you can see them the whole way.

HRE wrote:

Hurno. wrote:

Sorry, just saw this. Will add 25 minute run. How do I stop them from walking? They will just walk 15 - 20 minutes if I tell them to do 25' running.

Don't let them race if they walk unless they're new and genuinely unable to run for 25 minutes. If that's a real problem have them run on the track or do laps around a field where you can see them the whole way.

That's 100% the situation, all of them completely new. Some have never done a sport before, some are sprinters, some are basketball players. Their ability to jog for 2 - 3 miles, without walking, depends entirely on how they are feeling that day. Most days it's not pretty, but occasionally they surprise me.

I always keep them within eyesight in case somebody collapses, it's best to lean towards safety first with newbies.

Boys race a 5k in 24:00 - 29:00

Girls race theirs in 32:00 - 38:00

Just getting them through the race is a huge win for this season. They didn't start running consistently until August.

HRE wrote:

Okay, see my comment about having them run for 25 minutes a day. That would be a big improvement, 30-45 minutes would be better, have a session of hills or some sort of repeats, 400s, 600s, miles, "a lot of eyewash" as Lydiard would say, in a week with one race and no reps, maybe a few strides, if there's more than one race.

One race per week.

Only 3 and a half weeks left of the season so 30 - 45 minutes won't happen this season, definitely a good goal for the off-season going into track.

Going to try 600s then 800s at around "5k pace" soon. Up to now they've been failing miserably at easy running without stopping to walk, doing 150s and 200s @ "mile" pace, and short sprints because they like that.

150s and 200s are basically just "high" volume submaximal sprinting, because they can at least do that. It was the only thing they could do effectively early season, so I had them slow it down more than traditional sprints and do it off of short rest, 90" at first but now down to 20" - 30"

Put off traditional 400s, 600s, 800s, 1k's, 1200s, and mile workouts due to not thinking they could complete them well enough. Then decided I was wrong and should at least try to get them to do 600s and 800s fast in the hopes of some sort of benefit before the season is over.

Some of them liked the 400s we did recently. Happy about that.

Okay. If having them be happy is your goal that's fine. But if they're barely getting their weekly mileage to double digits don't wonder why they're struggling after a mile in their races. If you're going to have them doing 250s, twenty of them ends up being 5 km. Just have them do a lot more of those 150s, 250s, and 400s. As doing those reps makes them happy if you have them doing 3-4 times the number you should make them 3-4 times happier.

How is it that all of them are completely new? And even if they are how is it that none of them can run under 24:00? I was on the first cross country team my high school ever had. Almost everyone was new to the sport and most of our courses were about two and a half miles,not 5 km. But we had guys running 14:00-20:00 so almost all of us would have been ahead of your first runners. Your situation seems very unusual.

"Just have them do a lot more of those 150s, 250s, and 400s. As doing those reps makes them happy if you have them doing 3-4 times the number you should make them 3-4 times happier."

This is GENIUS!!! Thank you!

HRE wrote:

How is it that all of them are completely new? And even if they are how is it that none of them can run under 24:00? I was on the first cross country team my high school ever had. Almost everyone was new to the sport and most of our courses were about two and a half miles,not 5 km. But we had guys running 14:00-20:00 so almost all of us would have been ahead of your first runners. Your situation seems very unusual.

Not much of a running culture to begin with in a low-income inner city. COVID completely wiped out numbers across all athletic programs. It's just not their thing I guess, genetics or whatever. They are making big improvements though. Most importantly, I think they will all be coming back next season.

Good luck.

HRE wrote:

Good luck.

Thanks bro!

Flavian wrote:I have a sophomore who specifically wants to run higher mileage and focus on a road half marathon this spring.

It might actually be helpful if he does the training for a half marathon. It sounds like he is motivated to run all XC season and then over the winter as well. If it's a Spring half marathon he could be back after it's over to run the remainder of the season. On the other hand, if he is friends with other team members on the team they might persuade him to "hang out" with them at track practice. Might put his plans on hold. Either way it might be a win-win situation.