Are these posters that
1. complain about today's 800 being too slow
2. Centro's gold was great
3. Mu is a high schooler for front running the 800
the same person?
It was a tactical race, nothing wrong with that on championship level. Korir ran very smart and deserved the win. Rotich had the strongest finish. Amos and Murphy had neither. Medals well deserved in a pretty open final.
Anyone trying to argue this race was anything other than an complete stain on the olympics is trying too hard to be argumentative. We've seen numerous incredible track performances so far with world records, teen phenoms, and star struck performances.
Then the men's 800M goes 54-1:45. Not even a fast close for such a slow opening lap. Yawn. I watched the race two hours ago and can't even name the medalists that's how forgettable it was.
Osako fan wrote:
I feel like hocker, centro, ingebristin, cheriyot would have medalled in this 800m. What a shi* show
Cheruiyot would have had a chance, but the others no way. The splits were very in line and faster in most case than what has won in 800 finals that have gone in 53.5-55 forever.
tokyodrifter wrote:
Anyone trying to argue this race was anything other than an complete stain on the olympics is trying too hard to be argumentative. We've seen numerous incredible track performances so far with world records, teen phenoms, and star struck performances.
Then the men's 800M goes 54-1:45. Not even a fast close for such a slow opening lap. Yawn. I watched the race two hours ago and can't even name the medalists that's how forgettable it was.
Great succinct post. You're right - this is even worse considering the context. People are pushing themselves left and right and raising the bar ever higher in other events, and then we get whatever this was in the 800.
Maybe a hot week had taken its toll. I think every runner in the final ran faster in semis except Amos. That means something and I doubt very much that it means they are a bunch of losers lacking champion mentality.
It was so bad I had to go back and watch a replay of 2012
There's got to be a better word than "tactical" for slower races. All races are tactical. If you go out hard and try to force the pace in an effort to blow up your opponents, that's a tactic. If you decide to put the burners on well before 200 or 150 left (as is typical point for everyone to start sprinting), even after going out moderate, that's a tactic.
Coevett wrote:
Brazier and Burgin both injured
One of these athletes is a proven world champ, the other is an unproven, often injured nobody.
Coevett wrote:
A possible medalist and somebody with insane closing speed - Oliver Dustin - sabotaged by a French lab at the worst possible time of the season.
The guy who got 6th place in his HEAT? OK 😂
Coevett wrote:
Korir is not the best 800m runner in the world, probably not in the top 10 unless it's a dawdle like today.
You’re aware he’s the 6th fastest man EVER over 800m, right?
What’s next? Some Diamond League races and then The World Championships next year, where runners use all the tools they have to try to negotiate rounds and beat their competitors. Welcome to track and field.
sprinter guy2 wrote:
lrc loves to complain wrote:
Good thing you'll never be close to getting one, and medals are awarded for finishing 1-2-3 in the race, not for satisfying some guy on LRC's definition of an "Olympic performance"
Seriously, does Frerichs not deserve a medal for only running 9:04 in the SC when the record is 8:44 ? Both the 800 final and her SC performance are 96% of the world record ...
I may not have been an Olympian, but I ran some good times in my day. Further, at least I can say I really left it all out on the track every time I competed, even moreso in championship-type races. Some days were better than others like anyone else, but I can't say I didn't try.
Most of the 800 meter field you saw today can't say that. And at the end of the day, they'll know that it's not really a legitimate performance, and there will come a day when they might wonder what could have been if they cared enough. Medals are superficial (even if obviously very prestigious) but the feeling of doing your best and laying it all on the line lasts forever.
People that are just in it for the medals and beating their competition as opposed to the spirit of the sport itself, and improving on yourself, rather than intentionally doing poorly, are just bad for Track and Field. While this shouldn't be the primary consideration, it also makes viewers lose interest. No one wants to see people just not try. It's what's killing viewership of certain other professional sports too. People phone it in and don't give an effort as long as they get that paycheck.
Going by your username, I'll guess that you're a sprinter .. where championships tactics are completely different than in the 800m and up. In sprints, you usually need to run a PR/NR/WR to medal or win ... however mid distance is different. The fatigue of the rounds is more important, and the disadvantages of frontrunning almost always outweigh the advantages (unless you're rudisha, the greatest 800 runner ever) Look at Arop (Doha finalist) in the semis for example, frontran his heat hard, faded at 750 and didn't even qualify. Tactics matter, and I can guarantee you that every single professional athlete will lay it all on the line and give their best on that day in the olympic final ... but you need to distinguish between running a smart tactical race (at full effort) vs. stupidly hammering it and not medalling (Prefontaine in 72 for example ...)
The goal of the olympics is to win medals. I guess this is where we disagree, but running a tactical race is definitely not against the spirit of the sport. Athletics is a competition. You want to win, with whatever tactic is appropriate. I don't think tactical races kill viewership at all ... I think LRC is just upset with this race because Murphy ran like garbage and Kenya went 1-2 to be honest. The race itself was interesting and it is nice to see upsets happen.
Something about it being 1:45.0 and not 1:44.9 has made a huge impact on people's perceptions. 12.3 for the final 100 for Rotich is pretty ridiculous. 25.2 last 200 for Korir is legit. It was high-level kicking and the biggest knock the race is probably that Murphy and Amos no-showed, and Lopez drew a death Semi so he wasn't in the Final. So instead of what should've been 5-6 guys fighting for 3 medals we had 3 guys clear.
lrc loves to complain wrote:
Going by your username, I'll guess that you're a sprinter .. where championships tactics are completely different than in the 800m and up. In sprints, you usually need to run a PR/NR/WR to medal or win ... however mid distance is different. The fatigue of the rounds is more important, and the disadvantages of frontrunning almost always outweigh the advantages (unless you're rudisha, the greatest 800 runner ever) Look at Arop (Doha finalist) in the semis for example, frontran his heat hard, faded at 750 and didn't even qualify. Tactics matter, and I can guarantee you that every single professional athlete will lay it all on the line and give their best on that day in the olympic final ... but you need to distinguish between running a smart tactical race (at full effort) vs. stupidly hammering it and not medalling (Prefontaine in 72 for example ...)
The goal of the olympics is to win medals. I guess this is where we disagree, but running a tactical race is definitely not against the spirit of the sport. Athletics is a competition. You want to win, with whatever tactic is appropriate. I don't think tactical races kill viewership at all ... I think LRC is just upset with this race because Murphy ran like garbage and Kenya went 1-2 to be honest. The race itself was interesting and it is nice to see upsets happen.
+1
My longest race in competition was an 800. I never once went beyond that. I was primarily a 200/400 guy. And what I just saw was absolutely pathetic. I rewatched the first lap and felt nauseous. It was baaaaaaaaad.
I'll grant you that you have an argument for longer runs - maybe even ostensibly the 1500 - but come on - this is an 800. It's more of a sprint than a longer run especially the higher up the ranks you go. Almost all of these guys could crank out a really fast 400. So it's sad to see them not put forth much effort. And, whatever this nonsense "tactic" was blew up in the faces of almost everyone in the field. One has got to feel really stupid not medaling as one of the fastest in the field because one got lazy and tactical. And I'll never understand that.
a regular guy wrote:
But think about it: if before the race you said to Korir, run a 53 first lap and 1:45 finish and you will win gold, would that argument be rational? I say no, I say chances are you will be destroyed at least by Amos, probably by Rotich. It was just a relatively bad race where a case can be made that some of the best runners were not even there, a clear front runner Vasquez was also not there, the heavy favourite must be suffering from an injury to have run that bad (Amos), and Korir had a solid race that should've been good enough maybe for a bronze but it turns out it was gold because the level was relatively low.
This is just not in line with the history of the event. First of all Korir ran 54.0 for the first 400 and finished in 1:45.0. You use imprecise language to misrepresent a strong effort. As I shared earlier in this thread going back to the 1980 Olympics and continuing in recent championships like 2009, 2015 (with Rudisha btw) and so on these sort of splits have been good enough to win Gold. Coming off of a slow first lap is hard and running 25.8/25.2 for the last 400 like Korir did is not easy. There should've been more of a battle for 3rd I'll agree, but Amos/Murphy were bad and Lopez who would've been there got bumped out of the final by a couple hundredths by two guys on the podium.
sprinter guy2 wrote:
And, whatever this nonsense "tactic" was blew up in the faces of almost everyone in the field.
Except the guys who won medals, right?
Go to the lead/front of the pack, stay relaxed, run the shortest distance, and kick it home.
Sounds like a beautiful tactic to me. Pushing the pace and leading only works if you’re far and away the best athlete 🤷🏽♂️
We’ll see the opposite example of this when McSweyn leads the 1500 and falters on the last lap.
There's nothing more noble in winning the Olympics in 1:43 vs winning the Olympics in 1:48. You're there to beat your opponents. Miss me with that "sacrificing the gift" nonsense.
Or, or, OP, it was a tactically exciting race to watch & the last lap was super impressive.
At least it was better than one of those dreadful soccer games where both teams basically quit during overtime to let it go to penalties.
Well, at least it was over more quickly.
Better than PKs wrote:
At least it was better than one of those dreadful soccer games where both teams basically quit during overtime to let it go to penalties.
Well, at least it was over more quickly.
And to think, some of those soccer teams put out these guys called "defenders" and a "goalkeeper" instead of going all out! The horror!
lrc loves to complain wrote:
sprinter guy2 wrote:
I may not have been an Olympian, but I ran some good times in my day. Further, at least I can say I really left it all out on the track every time I competed, even moreso in championship-type races. Some days were better than others like anyone else, but I can't say I didn't try.
Most of the 800 meter field you saw today can't say that. And at the end of the day, they'll know that it's not really a legitimate performance, and there will come a day when they might wonder what could have been if they cared enough. Medals are superficial (even if obviously very prestigious) but the feeling of doing your best and laying it all on the line lasts forever.
People that are just in it for the medals and beating their competition as opposed to the spirit of the sport itself, and improving on yourself, rather than intentionally doing poorly, are just bad for Track and Field. While this shouldn't be the primary consideration, it also makes viewers lose interest. No one wants to see people just not try. It's what's killing viewership of certain other professional sports too. People phone it in and don't give an effort as long as they get that paycheck.
Going by your username, I'll guess that you're a sprinter .. where championships tactics are completely different than in the 800m and up. In sprints, you usually need to run a PR/NR/WR to medal or win ... however mid distance is different. The fatigue of the rounds is more important, and the disadvantages of frontrunning almost always outweigh the advantages (unless you're rudisha, the greatest 800 runner ever) Look at Arop (Doha finalist) in the semis for example, frontran his heat hard, faded at 750 and didn't even qualify. Tactics matter, and I can guarantee you that every single professional athlete will lay it all on the line and give their best on that day in the olympic final ... but you need to distinguish between running a smart tactical race (at full effort) vs. stupidly hammering it and not medalling (Prefontaine in 72 for example ...)
The goal of the olympics is to win medals. I guess this is where we disagree, but running a tactical race is definitely not against the spirit of the sport. Athletics is a competition. You want to win, with whatever tactic is appropriate. I don't think tactical races kill viewership at all ... I think LRC is just upset with this race because Murphy ran like garbage and Kenya went 1-2 to be honest. The race itself was interesting and it is nice to see upsets happen.
I agree with most of what you said, but the premise of a “tactical” 800 is dumb. The race is less than two minutes long. For a race to be tactical means there’s a degree of patience and negotiation to be had. 90% of tactics come from where you find yourself in the first 200. I can see why some people might find that interesting, but like I’ve said before, it’s counterintuitive to the structure of “fair” racing. Imagine being a traditional front runner and having to blow your wad just to get the pole. A 23 second first 200 will hurt any decent runner’s chances of finishing well. I have no problem with a slow race, but a dumb race isn’t good for anyone.