The sixth and fatal shot—frame 313—makes Houlihan piss hot for nandro from the front. This is the key shot. The athlete going back to her left. Swallows the pig balls from the front and right. Totally inconsistent with the carne asada from the food truck. Again... back and to the left… back and to the left… back and to the left… back and to the left.
So where is the second food truck..?
Nikey McShill wrote:
Breton wrote:
David Epstein (The Sports Gene author) was on a the Hang up and Listen Podcast talking about this. It was an interesting impartial discussion.
The segment starts at 50:00.
https://slate.com/podcasts/hang-up-and-listen/2021/06/the-nba-playoffs-ncaa-v-alston-and-shelby-houlihan-on-hang-up-and-listenThere's also a transcript. Here's a quote from Epstein:
It is a common contaminant. Nandrolone makes up most of the positive tests that the Athletics Integrity Unit finds overall. We know it gets injected into meat illegally versus the chance that she was for some reason taking it orally, which would be very rare and the stupidest thing you could possibly take. So I’m sort of stuck between these improbable stories. But my reflex these days when someone test positive for nandrolone is to think that that may be accidental because it’s like the one substance that everyone knows not to take on purpose anymore. But it’s still a common contaminant.
Good. Thanks for that. Someone who actually knows something about the subject pointing out the obvious.
But it won't placate those who want to bury Shelby just because she was living out their own fantasy of being the hottest distance runner in the US. That kind of success brings out the worst in those who live their lives in envy of others.
Envy? I doubt many of us have a fantasy of being "the hottest distance runner in the US". The problem I have with SH is that her story is a series of circumstances that, taken together, are an improbable explanation for why she tested positive.
What PR outfit you work for?
jackamo wrote:
What PR outfit you work for?
He's a "legal hacker" which apparently has something to do with bitcoin 😂😂😂 No joke.
Precisely -- also would explain why you are hearing the outrage and the 'going to the mat' of the other BTC squad. They are likely taking the same 'on the line' supplements and could also easily be using contaminated products.
But that's a much harder story to sell, to both the public for sympathy's sake, and certainly doesn't fly with WADA who will simply say that's a 'you' problem.
Nikey McShill wrote:
Breton wrote:
David Epstein (The Sports Gene author) was on a the Hang up and Listen Podcast talking about this. It was an interesting impartial discussion.
The segment starts at 50:00.
https://slate.com/podcasts/hang-up-and-listen/2021/06/the-nba-playoffs-ncaa-v-alston-and-shelby-houlihan-on-hang-up-and-listenThere's also a transcript. Here's a quote from Epstein:
It is a common contaminant. Nandrolone makes up most of the positive tests that the Athletics Integrity Unit finds overall. We know it gets injected into meat illegally versus the chance that she was for some reason taking it orally, which would be very rare and the stupidest thing you could possibly take. So I’m sort of stuck between these improbable stories. But my reflex these days when someone test positive for nandrolone is to think that that may be accidental because it’s like the one substance that everyone knows not to take on purpose anymore. But it’s still a common contaminant.
Good. Thanks for that. Someone who actually knows something about the subject pointing out the obvious.
But it won't placate those who want to bury Shelby just because she was living out their own fantasy of being the hottest distance runner in the US. That kind of success brings out the worst in those who live their lives in envy of others.
Houlihan apologists are cut from the same gullible, liberal cloth as those who flounced their pants for Jussie Smollett. Like poltroons of yore, they long ago lost the ability to distinguish what they desperately want to be true, with what actually is true.
Burrito trucks? Hog balls? Lie-detectors? Mexican bandits? These are the figments of the socially inept and involuntary celibate. They will one day have to account for their servility to their disgusting cause, while they skunk their heads in shame at what they have done. As a great man once said, "Man looks in the abyss, there's nothing staring back at him. At that moment, man finds his character. And that is what keeps him out of the abyss." Those are words of wisdom for the Shelboites.
Railroading Houlihan? When and where?
Nikey McShill wrote:
Breton wrote:
David Epstein (The Sports Gene author) was on a the Hang up and Listen Podcast talking about this. It was an interesting impartial discussion.
The segment starts at 50:00.
https://slate.com/podcasts/hang-up-and-listen/2021/06/the-nba-playoffs-ncaa-v-alston-and-shelby-houlihan-on-hang-up-and-listenThere's also a transcript. Here's a quote from Epstein:
It is a common contaminant. Nandrolone makes up most of the positive tests that the Athletics Integrity Unit finds overall. We know it gets injected into meat illegally...
Good. Thanks for that. Someone who actually knows something about the subject pointing out the obvious.
Epstein says "We know nandrolone gets injected into meat illegally..."
This is the first I've heard anyone say the pork was contaminated by injection. Every other article (including the WADA guidance and reports) is focused on nandrolone produced naturally by uncastrated male pigs.
Have I missed something?
Mash Pie Slam Bone wrote:
Nikey McShill wrote:
Good. Thanks for that. Someone who actually knows something about the subject pointing out the obvious.
But it won't placate those who want to bury Shelby just because she was living out their own fantasy of being the hottest distance runner in the US. That kind of success brings out the worst in those who live their lives in envy of others.
Houlihan apologists are cut from the same gullible, liberal cloth as those who flounced their pants for Jussie Smollett. Like poltroons of yore, they long ago lost the ability to distinguish what they desperately want to be true, with what actually is true.
Burrito trucks? Hog balls? Lie-detectors? Mexican bandits? These are the figments of the socially inept and involuntary celibate. They will one day have to account for their servility to their disgusting cause, while they skunk their heads in shame at what they have done. As a great man once said, "Man looks in the abyss, there's nothing staring back at him. At that moment, man finds his character. And that is what keeps him out of the abyss." Those are words of wisdom for the Shelboites.
Right wingers like Hardloper, Rojo & Wejo are or were defending S. Houlihan. I tend to believe white conservatives are the ones supporting Houlihan.
How many athletes have any of you known, especially high level athletes, that would eat a big greasy burrito? I highly doubt that Houlihan would order something like that from a food truck and proceed to mow down a pound of unknown ingredients. Especially as a race was approaching.
The LRC right wingers are supporting Shelby because she was their great WHITE hope against Africans sweeping the medals.
Who are you? What are you trying to do? wrote:
2) Burden of proof is on Houlihan to prove she did nothing wrong. It has not been proven that Houlihan purchased food from Mexican food truck ten hours before ped test.
Shelby literally provided bank records to show she purchased something from that food truck. LOL.
Anyway, she's banned. now the problem is hers to solve... or not. No amount of posting on LR will make any difference.
Don't know hobby joggers that would do this, which I think is the appeal of this particular angle:
SH is just like you, eating mystery meat burritos at some authentic <insert ethnicity> food truck.
Cute story. Cute and likely fictional.
Can SH release her own ABP? might help to lend some credibility to her story more than a lie detector test commissioned by your own side.
Who are you? What are you trying to do? wrote:
Mash Pie Slam Bone wrote:
Burrito trucks? Hog balls? Lie-detectors? Mexican bandits? These are the figments of the socially inept and involuntary celibate. They will one day have to account for their servility to their disgusting cause, while they skunk their heads in shame at what they have done. As a great man once said, "Man looks in the abyss, there's nothing staring back at him. At that moment, man finds his character. And that is what keeps him out of the abyss." Those are words of wisdom for the Shelboites.
Right wingers like Hardloper, Rojo & Wejo are or were defending S. Houlihan. I tend to believe white conservatives are the ones supporting Houlihan.
^This. Also incels are also hard core right wing.
And finally, thank you for the laugh, but no great man ever said that, it's a quote from a fictional character in a movie. As a great man once said, " A fine quotation is a diamond in the hand of a man of wit and a pebble in the hand of a fool."
shocked I tell you again wrote:
Who are you? What are you trying to do? wrote:
2) Burden of proof is on Houlihan to prove she did nothing wrong. It has not been proven that Houlihan purchased food from Mexican food truck ten hours before ped test.
Shelby literally provided bank records to show she purchased something from that food truck. LOL.
Anyway, she's banned. now the problem is hers to solve... or not. No amount of posting on LR will make any difference.
It's interesting that you say "bank records" when BTC said "receipt." Which is it?
A receipt would have an actual date and time, whereas a bank record would just reflect when the bank settled the charge (which varies widely by vendor, payment processor, credit card company, and bank).
Anyway, the public still hasn't seen any of this evidence, which is why folks are saying we should wait and see what evidence was actually provided to CAS (a legal proceedings) vs. what was announced (but not disclosed) to the media.
Armstronglivs wrote:
I'll take the reasoning of a duly authorized judicial body over your apologia for a convicted doper anyday.
Why? I don't have any particularly strong faith in a judiciary committees' ability to evaluate truth.
The OP did not make a compelling case Houlihan didn't dope.
He did make an interesting/compelling case (assuming premises are correct) that nandrolone could reasonably be acquired from eating pig.
I thought OPs points in both P1 and P2 were reasonable, and assuming that his premises are accurate, presents a good reason to downgrade probability of doping for 99.9999% to something like 98% or 95% or 90%.
Where the OP lost me was P3. He rather randomly implied that the nandrolone MUST have come from the pig. That doesn't follow. It's possible the nandrolone came from the pig (innocent) AND exogenous sources (doping).
Vancomycin wrote:
Doping is strict liability. If you get popped you need STRONG EVIDENCE of your convoluted excuse. It's not innocent until proven guilty. You are guilty by having nandrolone metabolites in your system.
If all the Nike money in the world couldn't produce such evidence... is she really being railroaded?
Wait for the CAS report.
Eh. You're pretty f*cked if you get popped innocently.
Like, let's say for example it's legitimate that it was acquired from a pig. Cool. You got some nandrolone from a pig (honestly, proving this seems rather difficult as well).
This doesn't exonerate you. She could have taken nandrolone at any other time as well.
I honestly cannot think of solid evidence that Houlihan could use to prove she didn't dope, short of literally having cameras on her 24/7.
If I'm just being dumb and there IS a way to prove innocence (in a universe where Houlihan is actually innocent of trying to chear) I'd be curious to hear it.
Who are you? What are you trying to do? wrote:
Mash Pie Slam Bone wrote:
Houlihan apologists are cut from the same gullible, liberal cloth as those who flounced their pants for Jussie Smollett. Like poltroons of yore, they long ago lost the ability to distinguish what they desperately want to be true, with what actually is true.
Burrito trucks? Hog balls? Lie-detectors? Mexican bandits? These are the figments of the socially inept and involuntary celibate. They will one day have to account for their servility to their disgusting cause, while they skunk their heads in shame at what they have done. As a great man once said, "Man looks in the abyss, there's nothing staring back at him. At that moment, man finds his character. And that is what keeps him out of the abyss." Those are words of wisdom for the Shelboites.
Right wingers like Hardloper, Rojo & Wejo are or were defending S. Houlihan. I tend to believe white conservatives are the ones supporting Houlihan.
Que donde? Que donde basura? There's no need to drag racialism into this. You have no stats that whites are slopping the gruel for Houlihan. Show me. Show me your racial numbers, Captain Spreadsheet.
What's the matter with you? Carrying on like some intersectionalist fool. This is America. Facts matter, pal. Not your fears and tinted perceptions.
I honestly cannot think of solid evidence that Houlihan could use to prove she didn't dope, short of literally having cameras on her 24/7.
If I'm just being dumb and there IS a way to prove innocence (in a universe where Houlihan is actually innocent of trying to chear) I'd be curious to hear it.
I think the model here is Brenda Martinez. 1) Positive test --> 2) canvass what you've ingested --> 3) zero in on a potentially suspicious substance --> 4) test the substance, find that it's exactly what you tested positive for --> 5) argue to doping authorities that ingestion was accidental.
This appears to be what Houlihan's lawyer tried to replicate, but it's unclear to what extent they could do #4. It will probably become more clear when CAS releases their report.
We should not necessarily assume that everything claimed in the press conference was 100% on the level if they won't actually release that evidence publicly (i.e. what exactly were the polygraph questions? what's on the receipt? what did the taco truck actually have on the menu?). They've already tried to split hairs in a way that was misleading ("she ate at a food truck that serves pork offal" etc).
Vancomycin wrote:
Doping is strict liability. If you get popped you need STRONG EVIDENCE of your convoluted excuse. It's not innocent until proven guilty. You are guilty by having nandrolone metabolites in your system.
No. You only need to make a case based on " the balance of probability ", which Houlihan failed to do, while Lawson succeeded (both in front of CAS).
CAS wrote:
Finally, the CAS Panel unanimously determined that Shelby Houlihan had failed, on the balance of probability, to establish the source of the prohibited substance.
Note that Lawson did not prove that his trenbolone came from the beef he ate, it was just " more likely than not ":
CAS wrote:
The CAS Panel found it more likely than not that the origin of the prohibited substance was contaminated beef consumed in a restaurant the day before the test