Just a drop in pace before the 200's.
Just a drop in pace before the 200's.
People focus too much on kicking while we're talking about a WR breaking pace.
No one kicks harder than Usain Bolt, yet any hobby jogger running sub 19 min 5k would outkick him on a 5k because Bolt would finish crawling.
My point is, all the guys who have better kicking abilities than Cheptegei won't do anything if they're burned because the pace is too high and everyone is battling just to follow the pace.
Update
Another addition is set to be Stewart McSweyn.
He just did a 3000m time-trial in Australia to see where he's at.
Stewy ran 7:39 at sea level, with the aid of Jordan Williamsz as a pacemaker.
Just rewatched Doha and wanted to bump this thread a bit since we were talking about kicks.
Cheptegei closed Doha, a 26:48 race, in 55.39. Here's how that compares to the other legends in similar situations (tried to only include sub-27:10 races).
Farah --
2015 -- Closed 27:01 race in 54.1
2016 -- Closed 27:05 race in 55.3
2017 -- Closed 26:49 race in 55.6
Bekele:
2003 -- Closed his famous 26:49 duel with Haile G. in 55.02
2004 -- Closed 27:05 race in 53.02
2005 -- Closed 27:08 race in 54.2
2007 -- Closed 27:05 race in 55.9
2008 -- Closed 27:01 race in 53.4
2009 -- Closed 26:45 race in 56.20
Geb:
1995 -- Closed a 27:12 race in 56.3
1996 -- Closed 27:07 in 57.49
2000 -- Closed 27:18 in 56.56 (only included this one because of the legendary kick vs. Tergat)
So Cheptegei is right there.
So will any American studs decide to run the 5000 since it looks like other Americans are going to be racing there?
Or are guys like Kincaid only interested in doing TT with buddies and not being in a high profile fast international race?
birdbeard wrote:
Just rewatched Doha and wanted to bump this thread a bit since we were talking about kicks.
Cheptegei closed Doha, a 26:48 race, in 55.39. Here's how that compares to the other legends in similar situations (tried to only include sub-27:10 races).
Farah --
2015 -- Closed 27:01 race in 54.1
2016 -- Closed 27:05 race in 55.3
2017 -- Closed 26:49 race in 55.6
Bekele:
2003 -- Closed his famous 26:49 duel with Haile G. in 55.02
2004 -- Closed 27:05 race in 53.02
2005 -- Closed 27:08 race in 54.2
2007 -- Closed 27:05 race in 55.9
2008 -- Closed 27:01 race in 53.4
2009 -- Closed 26:45 race in 56.20
Geb:
1995 -- Closed a 27:12 race in 56.3
1996 -- Closed 27:07 in 57.49
2000 -- Closed 27:18 in 56.56 (only included this one because of the legendary kick vs. Tergat)
So Cheptegei is right there.
Great post. Thank you.
birdbeard wrote:
Just rewatched Doha and wanted to bump this thread a bit since we were talking about kicks.
Cheptegei closed Doha, a 26:48 race, in 55.39. Here's how that compares to the other legends in similar situations (tried to only include sub-27:10 races).
Farah --
2015 -- Closed 27:01 race in 54.1
2016 -- Closed 27:05 race in 55.3
2017 -- Closed 26:49 race in 55.6
Bekele:
2003 -- Closed his famous 26:49 duel with Haile G. in 55.02
2004 -- Closed 27:05 race in 53.02
2005 -- Closed 27:08 race in 54.2
2007 -- Closed 27:05 race in 55.9
2008 -- Closed 27:01 race in 53.4
2009 -- Closed 26:45 race in 56.20
Geb:
1995 -- Closed a 27:12 race in 56.3
1996 -- Closed 27:07 in 57.49
2000 -- Closed 27:18 in 56.56 (only included this one because of the legendary kick vs. Tergat)
So Cheptegei is right there.
Cheptegai has a good kick for 10 000m but not for 5 000m.
Why are you refusing to admit the obvious?
He got smoked two times by the pack last season at 5000 in the last lap. He also was easily beaten by Barega in a 3000m kick when they were only two.
His 5000m kick isnt better than his 10 000 and he can t close in 53sec with a fast previous lap.
Update : Jimmy Gressier just ran an incredible workout. 3k TT in 7'49", 5' break, 4x500m @ 1:16-1:17 w/1' rest. Sub 13 shape??
Mzungu in Iten wrote:
Update : Jimmy Gressier just ran an incredible workout. 3k TT in 7'49", 5' break, 4x500m @ 1:16-1:17 w/1' rest. Sub 13 shape??
I would say no. I don't think that workout indicates sub-13 shape. I think it's more like 13:10-15 shape.
Lion belt wrote:
His 5000m kick isnt better than his 10 000 and he can t close in 53sec with a fast previous lap.
He doesn't need to. Barega's last lap in his 12:43 was 55.82. Bekele ran a 58 last lap in his 5000m WR.
Mzungu in Iten wrote:
Update : Jimmy Gressier just ran an incredible workout. 3k TT in 7'49", 5' break, 4x500m @ 1:16-1:17 w/1' rest. Sub 13 shape??
12:55?
birdbeard wrote:
Lion belt wrote:
His 5000m kick isnt better than his 10 000 and he can t close in 53sec with a fast previous lap.
He doesn't need to. Barega's last lap in his 12:43 was 55.82. Bekele ran a 58 last lap in his 5000m WR.
What are you talking about?
Hic kick is not relevent in a time trial with low competition. But it is absolutely in championship eaces.
well we're talking about a wr attempt pace mayne
birdbeard wrote:
well we're talking about a wr attempt pace mayne
So why are you desperatly trying to prove that he has a good kick?
He would lose all races to someone like Bekele ou Gebre who had the complete package including a great kick.
Lion belt wrote:
birdbeard wrote:
well we're talking about a wr attempt pace mayne
So why are you desperatly trying to prove that he has a good kick?
He would lose all races to someone like Bekele ou Gebre who had the complete package including a great kick.
lol man, you are not a fun person.
We were talking about whether or not Cheptegei would be able to outkick other elites off a hot pace. While everyone acknowledged he didn't have the raw speed of some of the top guys, many, like myself, believe he can still finish faster than most off a fast pace. Since he hasn't blitzed a bunch of 5000s I pulled the 10K times when the pace was hot to help further that point. While Bekele probably has an edge on him, Cheptegei's final lap in Doha compares favorably to Farah and Haile G. when they've been in quick 10Ks. So he can hang with the best of the best assuming the pace is punishing, which you know it will be if he's in the race at this point.
Based on Joshua Cheptegei’s strengths as a runner, it seemed as if this record might be outside his wheelhouse. However, after reading the article below, I expect that he will put up a strong challenge and maybe even run faster than Kenenisa Bekele’s legendary world record.
https://www.nnrunningteam.com/news/2020-08-11-record-breaker/
Mzungu in Iten wrote:
Update : Jimmy Gressier just ran an incredible workout. 3k TT in 7'49", 5' break, 4x500m @ 1:16-1:17 w/1' rest. Sub 13 shape??
Gressier's 5000m of work was at sub-13 pace. 7:48 3k is 13:00. He was a second over. His 4x500m took about 5:04 to 5:08. That adds up to 12:53-12:57. Outstanding work. But I'd still be surprised if he can break 13 here. He can now run under 13:05, I think.
birdbeard wrote:
Mzungu in Iten wrote:
Update : Jimmy Gressier just ran an incredible workout. 3k TT in 7'49", 5' break, 4x500m @ 1:16-1:17 w/1' rest. Sub 13 shape??
I would say no. I don't think that workout indicates sub-13 shape. I think it's more like 13:10-15 shape.
+1
UPDATE
“I’ve worked hard and I think I’m in world record shape. It would be amazing to do this at a time when so much of the world is in lockdown. It would give people hope and show that great things can still be achieved during a pandemic. What motivates me is to break the 5000m world record and become one of the greats. I always tell my coach, I want to become the greatest distance runner of all time. I believe I can do extraordinary things, so it is a realistic goal.”
Joshua after his arrival in Monaco yesterday.
Plan is to go through 3k in 7:37 and run the last 2k in 5:00 or faster.
Pacemakers : Hoornweg,Kissa,Ramsden
Seems like a tall order to me. None of those pacemakers can reliably get him through even 3K. 7:37 is more than 8 seconds faster than any of his pacer's 3000 PRs. Hoornweg and Kissa are 7;50+ guys. Ramsden MIGHT be able to get Joshua to 2000.
Not ideal.