Kenya became the no. 1 distance running nation on Earth just a few years after they started to compete internationally. How do you explain this?
Kenya won its first medals in the 1960s. They were no more dominant in the 80's than they were in the 60's. They became the world no 1 distance running nation on Earth a year or two after EPO came on the scene. They started to lose it to Ethiopia when EPO testing and then the ABP was introduced, and since proper testing was introduced to Kenya 2 or 3 years ago, even Uganda is starting to rival them (not to mention in middle-distance, GB and Australia are ahead of them again).
What about answering the question? How did Kenya became the worlds no. 1 distance running nation just a around 10 years after they started to compete internationally in the mid 1950s?
I reading comprehension also one of your weak parts? If you don't understand properly, ask. I try to explain it again for you then.
Never answering where he got this 250+ number. He was asked several times.
Can't find the link, but there were 128 Kenyan busts between 2004 and 2018, when the bust rate escalated almost exponentially, and over 25 this year alone, so it's certainly around the 250 mark, especially including the number before 2004 (Ngugi et al).
Kenya won its first medals in the 1960s. They were no more dominant in the 80's than they were in the 60's. They became the world no 1 distance running nation on Earth a year or two after EPO came on the scene. They started to lose it to Ethiopia when EPO testing and then the ABP was introduced, and since proper testing was introduced to Kenya 2 or 3 years ago, even Uganda is starting to rival them (not to mention in middle-distance, GB and Australia are ahead of them again).
What about answering the question? How did Kenya became the worlds no. 1 distance running nation just a around 10 years after they started to compete internationally in the mid 1950s?
I reading comprehension also one of your weak parts? If you don't understand properly, ask. I try to explain it again for you then.
Kenya became the worlds #1 distance running nation after they started competing internationally the same way Asians in America began dominating academia. It’s about opportunity and not drugs.
100 % mea culpa, but even after reading your bitchy and whiny tirade, I totally lost whether you agree or disagree that genetical, cultural, residential (e.g. hypoxic adaptation) or other factors can lead to some parts of the world or in given countries being overrepresented in endurance sports?
Yawn. You seem very insecure, but relax. It's OK. Anyway even assuming the numbers you cite are correct (although they do not correspond to the percentages you would actually find in the major races like the TDF of that era, but whatever), the fact remained that doping was THE factor in whether a particular rider was elite or not just as in distance running and sprinting, Basque riders or otherwise. So while a strong sports culture and higher levels of participation regarding cycling could possibly explain why there was allegedly a higher percentage of pro riders from a particular nation or region (Italy being another typical example), chemistry was the determinative factor in whether you were lowly domestique or a GC contender.
Can't find the link, but there were 128 Kenyan busts between 2004 and 2018, when the bust rate escalated almost exponentially, and over 25 this year alone, so it's certainly around the 250 mark, especially including the number before 2004 (Ngugi et al).
Kenya won its first medals in the 1960s. They were no more dominant in the 80's than they were in the 60's. They became the world no 1 distance running nation on Earth a year or two after EPO came on the scene. They started to lose it to Ethiopia when EPO testing and then the ABP was introduced, and since proper testing was introduced to Kenya 2 or 3 years ago, even Uganda is starting to rival them (not to mention in middle-distance, GB and Australia are ahead of them again).
What about answering the question? How did Kenya became the worlds no. 1 distance running nation just a around 10 years after they started to compete internationally in the mid 1950s?
I reading comprehension also one of your weak parts? If you don't understand properly, ask. I try to explain it again for you then.
Kenya was not the worlds no 1 distance running nation in the 60s or 70s. They won a lot of medals at the 68 Olympics because it was at altitude. They were performing horrendously on the European circuit that year, then suddenly got back to top form when they reinstated their South African/Dutch 'sports scientist' coach. According to Charlie Francis, the Kenyans were doping at the 68 games. Keino's performance in Mexico was probably the most suspicious and unbelievable in men's middle-distance ever (outside of the full throttle EPO era).
How did Ma's Army dominate women's distance running in the space of 2 years out of literally nothing?
What about answering the question? How did Kenya became the worlds no. 1 distance running nation just a around 10 years after they started to compete internationally in the mid 1950s?
I reading comprehension also one of your weak parts? If you don't understand properly, ask. I try to explain it again for you then.
Kenya became the worlds #1 distance running nation after they started competing internationally the same way Asians in America began dominating academia. It’s about opportunity and not drugs.
In a similar way to how as soon as proper drugs testing has been introduced in Kenya, countries like Britain and Australia are winning gold medals again in the 1500m? It's all about equality of opportunity.
What about answering the question? How did Kenya became the worlds no. 1 distance running nation just a around 10 years after they started to compete internationally in the mid 1950s?
I reading comprehension also one of your weak parts? If you don't understand properly, ask. I try to explain it again for you then.
Kenya became the worlds #1 distance running nation after they started competing internationally the same way Asians in America began dominating academia. It’s about opportunity and not drugs.
BTW, are you saying that Asians allegedly dominate American academia because they have higher IQ than, for example, black people? And why log out and use an anonymous handle to say this slowerr? The scientific racist has become bashful all of a sudden?
To claim that someone who doesn't accept the nonsense you peddle as fact is a "self-absorbed narcissist" is uncannily like ... a self-absorbed narcissist.
He claims you are a self-absorbed narcissist because you are one.
But not so self absorbed as those who can't cope with a difference of opinion.
100 % mea culpa, but even after reading your bitchy and whiny tirade, I totally lost whether you agree or disagree that genetical, cultural, residential (e.g. hypoxic adaptation) or other factors can lead to some parts of the world or in given countries being overrepresented in endurance sports?
Was the Basque cycling success also the result of doping or are you ruling that out?
Kenya won its first medals in the 1960s. They were no more dominant in the 80's than they were in the 60's. They became the world no 1 distance running nation on Earth a year or two after EPO came on the scene. They started to lose it to Ethiopia when EPO testing and then the ABP was introduced, and since proper testing was introduced to Kenya 2 or 3 years ago, even Uganda is starting to rival them (not to mention in middle-distance, GB and Australia are ahead of them again).
What about answering the question? How did Kenya became the worlds no. 1 distance running nation just a around 10 years after they started to compete internationally in the mid 1950s?
I reading comprehension also one of your weak parts? If you don't understand properly, ask. I try to explain it again for you then.
Has doping played any part in what you claim is Kenya's success?
In middle and long distance running, how many Kenyan busts have there been in the last 30 years? The last 10? The last 2? What was the standard of those busted? Come on guys, get real please. What would be the ratio of the those busted to those who got away with it? 1 to 6? 10? Look at the figures. Follow the money. There is no argument. Kenyan distance running is obviously compromised.
You keep belabouring a single point, that Kenya would be "successful" (how successful?) even without doping. But you don't know that, since they have shown they are amongst the worst dopers in the sport. It is nonsense to suggest that doping would scarcely have made a difference when so many do it. That is, unless, you have to maintain it hasn't helped them. You don't realise it but you are arguing contradictory - as well as factually inaccurate - positions. But this is round and round the mulberry bush. I'll leave you to your confusion.
Kenya became the world no. 1 distance running nation on Earth a few years after they started to compete. Don't try to argue all of their success is only because of doping.
I have not contradicted anything. You were completely wrong on some issues here. You will never accept this because you are a dishonest self-absorbed narcissist who has absolutely no interest in serious discussions. Or you just can't.
For years you claimed that anybody who can put two feet ahead is doping since childhood. But Kenyans success is just because they dope - you never will see the illogical in your thinking. And if you would, you would not admit.
Europeans can't clear the water jump in the way many Kenyans do since decades. Why?
One minute you're pretending you're not a scientific racist and accusing me of lying, the next you're making claims that Kenyans have a genetic adaptation for clearing the water jump.
If Kenya was already the number 1 distance running powerhouse in the world in the 1960's, why did no Kenyan run under 2:09 for the marathon before EPO became widely available around 1992?
You could also ask if the success was a result of eating, training or breathing. I think doping was a factor, but even different patterns of doping use do not alone explain the relative importance of some geographical areas in pro cycling.
One could even plausibly argue that Kenyan current dominance is a result of doping, but blood doping use was totally uncontrolled in running until 2001, only slightly controlled until the ABP system a decade later and not even fully controlled after that. If doping was prevalent, this doping doesn't fullt explain the good performance / dominance of the Kenyan athletes from Soul 1988 Olympics onwards if not from earlier.
I understand that you struggle to understand. Changing statistics and choosing numbers just to fit what you want to "proove" is so normal for you, that you just can't understand anymore that others criticise it.
Yawn. You seem very insecure, but relax. It's OK. Anyway even assuming the numbers you cite are correct (although they do not correspond to the percentages you would actually find in the major races like the TDF of that era, but whatever), the fact remained that doping was THE factor in whether a particular rider was elite or not just as in distance running and sprinting, Basque riders or otherwise. So while a strong sports culture and higher levels of participation regarding cycling could possibly explain why there was allegedly a higher percentage of pro riders from a particular nation or region (Italy being another typical example), chemistry was the determinative factor in whether you were lowly domestique or a GC contender.
"Very insecure". TBH, more confused why someone, to whom I didn't even address my very neutral post, calls it "laughable" if he later admits that he actually might agree with the key point if the numbers are roughly accurate. (I made zero comments about whether it was possible / impossible to succeed without PEDs)
About the rough amount Basque cyclists, I presume you used the Spanish cyclists as a proxy, because the ethnic / geographical origin of each one is difficult to find.
But if you know next-to-nothing about Spanish pro cycling, even mentioning TDF without Vuelta is actually laughable in this context, because "Tour" isn't the key place to find the Spanish (or Basque) pro cyclists, because they focus by a magnitude more on "Vuelta" later on the calendar, and e.g. a total of 43 % of the participants the 2004 edition (focus of Coyle's book) were Spaniards.
Wouldn't be surprised if the 2004 roster of Euskaltel-Euskadi alone made up a third or quarter of the seventy-ish pro Basque cyclists.