Full Shelby Houlihan Report is Out from CAS

4 years prevented Houlihan from running in Tokyo and she won't compete in Paris in 2024, as well. It’s an extreme punishment for her. For a distance runner, a 10-year ban is no different than one for a lifetime.

pointer outer guy wrote:

So what was the product? You don't know. Your just throwing mud at the wall hoping some of it will stick.

No. I merely point out that the lab, AIU, WA and CAS were all correct in their actions. Drug cheats out.

And, if you were to read the CAS report, you'd find the description of a possible product. Of course only the dopers know which product(s) they used.

LOL so the full report that we'd been waiting for is finally out...and still no definitive proof that she was guilty and we still are all just speculating.

Out of interest, why haven't LRC written a bunch of articles defending Asbel Kiprop? The facts of his case are pretty similar to Houlihan's (claims the substance was ingested via tea). There is a minute possibility his explanation is accurate, and he has maintained his innocence. Just wondering why LRC doesn't bring together his case and Houlihan's. On balance, the merits of the two cases are very similar, and both athletes are from countries with known histories of doping in T&F

casual obsever wrote:

pointer outer guy wrote:

So what was the product? You don't know. Your just throwing mud at the wall hoping some of it will stick.

No. I merely point out that the lab, AIU, WA and CAS were all correct in their actions. Drug cheats out.

And, if you were to read the CAS report, you'd find the description of a possible product. Of course only the dopers know which product(s) they used.

In other words nobody knows, you're just guessing.

Why do you assume that Shelby knows?

@Rojo: again, I will ask, if it were Galen facing a ban for nandrolone would you accept burrito explanation and take his word on being clean?

pointer outer guy wrote:

casual obsever wrote:

No. I merely point out that the lab, AIU, WA and CAS were all correct in their actions. Drug cheats out.

And, if you were to read the CAS report, you'd find the description of a possible product. Of course only the dopers know which product(s) they used.

In other words nobody knows, you're just guessing.

Why do you assume that Shelby knows?

Maybe she doesn't even know. The point is, she tested positive and she chose the burrito defense, which did not hold up. It easily could have been apart of her supplement mix and she didn't know. But she didn't choose that defense because the athlete is responsible for knowing what they are putting in their body. To quote another poster's username, "Who knows?" what actually happened.

My point is- Shelby could be "innocent" in that she didn't know that she was taking exogenous nandrolone in her vitamin/supplement mix, but she unfortunately is GUILTY because she tested positive and chose a defense that did NOT hold up.

Shelby's only hope of clearing her name is for her lawyers/experts/whoever to possibly do some research on how food digests differently in someone with no spleen and no gallbladder, as she had both removed when she was young.

There's no real precedent in any research AIG/CAS/etc have cited for how nandro appears, digests or is excreted in someone who lacks the organs needed to fully digest food or clean their blood.

I'm kind of surprised they've never pointed this out let alone made any arguments concerning it. I don't buy the burrito story personally, but if there's any chance it's true (along with the chance the burrito was sausage and "pig offal" was blended in with the rest of the sausage), it would hinge on how her body digests food differently than anyone else.

Frankly this is embarrassing. Is there a 1 in a million chance she is clean? Yes, but those odds also exist for almost every other doper, and I find it easier to believe Dieter Batman more than a member of Nike’s drug factory who was breaking American records in training (the 5k was more like a training run than a race).

Breakfast In Bed wrote:

Shelby's only hope of clearing her name is for her lawyers/experts/whoever to possibly do some research on how food digests differently in someone with no spleen and no gallbladder, as she had both removed when she was young.

There's no real precedent in any research AIG/CAS/etc have cited for how nandro appears, digests or is excreted in someone who lacks the organs needed to fully digest food or clean their blood.

I'm kind of surprised they've never pointed this out let alone made any arguments concerning it. I don't buy the burrito story personally, but if there's any chance it's true (along with the chance the burrito was sausage and "pig offal" was blended in with the rest of the sausage), it would hinge on how her body digests food differently than anyone else.

Lol, this would be dead in the water. It's not like she is lacking a liver or kidneys.

And FWIW my guess as to what really happened:

- Nike as part of their relationship with these athletes has been systematically providing "vitamin" cocktails to their athletes, that secretly contain a variety of microdosed banned substances designed in part to keep all of them under the limit when pissed.

- They somehow botched the dose on Shelby's, whether they messed up in the lab, thought they could get away with extra dosing thinking there were no tests, or they forgot Shelby doesn't have a spleen/gallbladder and that she would metabolize the cocktail differently plus likely piss hotter than others taking the same cocktail.

- Shelby obviously threatened something once popped and Nike scrambled to pull strings to get her off the hook once their normal legal defenses that got other athletes of theirs off the hook for pissing hot weren't going to work.

Really? the 'its different in my body' defense?

Someone alert C Semenya then. Oh wait, shes not on our squad, i forgot

queen_bee wrote:

Maybe she doesn't even know. The point is, she tested positive and she chose the burrito defense, which did not hold up. It easily could have been apart of her supplement mix and she didn't know. But she didn't choose that defense because the athlete is responsible for knowing what they are putting in their body. To quote another poster's username, "Who knows?" what actually happened.

My point is- Shelby could be "innocent" in that she didn't know that she was taking exogenous nandrolone in her vitamin/supplement mix, but she unfortunately is GUILTY because she tested positive and chose a defense that did NOT hold up.

+1

High hopes wrote:

Out of interest, why haven't LRC written a bunch of articles defending Asbel Kiprop? The facts of his case are pretty similar to Houlihan's (claims the substance was ingested via tea). There is a minute possibility his explanation is accurate, and he has maintained his innocence. Just wondering why LRC doesn't bring together his case and Houlihan's. On balance, the merits of the two cases are very similar, and both athletes are from countries with known histories of doping in T&F

Have you seen Kiprop? He's never had a burrito in his life.

High hopes wrote:

Out of interest, why haven't LRC written a bunch of articles defending Asbel Kiprop? The facts of his case are pretty similar to Houlihan's (claims the substance was ingested via tea). There is a minute possibility his explanation is accurate, and he has maintained his innocence. Just wondering why LRC doesn't bring together his case and Houlihan's. On balance, the merits of the two cases are very similar, and both athletes are from countries with known histories of doping in T&F

Thank you High Hopes for some thoughtful and thought provoking posts in this thread. This one in particular sums up my growing frustration with the LR staff. But let's be charitable: maybe the SH case has changed their perception of the drug testing regime and they'll go to similar lengths in the future to give athletes the benefit of the doubt.

"It easily could have been apart of her supplement mix and she didn't know."

Is that any more plausible than that the nandrolone came from the burrito? Is that something that can happen accidently or would the supplier have to deliberately inject it into their product? I assume most athletes take supplements so why was she only potential T&F Olympian to get busted?

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

queen_bee wrote:

Maybe she doesn't even know. The point is, she tested positive and she chose the burrito defense, which did not hold up. It easily could have been apart of her supplement mix and she didn't know. But she didn't choose that defense because the athlete is responsible for knowing what they are putting in their body. To quote another poster's username, "Who knows?" what actually happened.

My point is- Shelby could be "innocent" in that she didn't know that she was taking exogenous nandrolone in her vitamin/supplement mix, but she unfortunately is GUILTY because she tested positive and chose a defense that did NOT hold up.

+1

Nicely summarised. FWIW, my gut feel is that she had a contaminated supplement. But the righteous indignation and the melodrama of the press conference; the misleading claims by her lawyer; the claim she and Jerry had never heard of Nandrolone; the rewriting of history over her decision not to run in the spikes in 2019 ; the slanted questions used in the lie detector test and suggestion that they all ate pig offal without realising it until later - none of it sat well with me.

queen_bee wrote:

pointer outer guy wrote:

In other words nobody knows, you're just guessing.

Why do you assume that Shelby knows?

Maybe she doesn't even know. The point is, she tested positive and she chose the burrito defense, which did not hold up. It easily could have been apart of her supplement mix and she didn't know. But she didn't choose that defense because the athlete is responsible for knowing what they are putting in their body. To quote another poster's username, "Who knows?" what actually happened.

My point is- Shelby could be "innocent" in that she didn't know that she was taking exogenous nandrolone in her vitamin/supplement mix, but she unfortunately is GUILTY because she tested positive and chose a defense that did NOT hold up.

She shouldn't be taking any supplements. It's too risky for an elite athlete. And I consider her Super Elite.

If you know something we don't, please inform us.

Breakfast In Bed wrote:

Shelby's only hope of clearing her name is for her lawyers/experts/whoever to possibly do some research on how food digests differently in someone with no spleen and no gallbladder, as she had both removed when she was young.

There's no real precedent in any research AIG/CAS/etc have cited for how nandro appears, digests or is excreted in someone who lacks the organs needed to fully digest food or clean their blood.

I'm kind of surprised they've never pointed this out let alone made any arguments concerning it. I don't buy the burrito story personally, but if there's any chance it's true (along with the chance the burrito was sausage and "pig offal" was blended in with the rest of the sausage), it would hinge on how her body digests food differently than anyone else.

Good point. Thanks for pointing it out and why no-one else is pointing it out. You after my job?