actually never mind... if trump wins the election he will just order the DOJ to drop the prosecutions completely. No self-pardon needed.
Not clear to me if the DOJ could take it up again in 2029 if a Dem wins and successfully takes office.
Also, not a great setup to have a mobster like trump know that if he leaves office he'll face prosecution. That's an incentive for him to NOT leave office. But we are a nation of laws and have to try to enforce them.
Agip, what do you think this country is going to look like in 2029 after another Trump term? Game over for democracy brother.
We don't know that.
Israel is surviving Bibi, Hungary is sort of surviving Orban, Italy survived Berlusconi...we won't emerge unscathed but it's not necessarily game over. Undermined and weakened, but we've been through that before and rebuilt.
The Scotus has made prosecuting a president almost an impossibility ever again. For anything. People focus on the "official acts" as well as the outside perimeter acts. But the kiss of death for ever prosecuting a president is found in the deranged and off the wall ruling that nobody can ever introduce any evidence into a trial that could ever question a President's motives for doing anything! Nor any communication with anyone around him. it defies logic and goes contrary to the constitution.
What prosecutor would possibly bring any case with those hands tied?
The SCOTUS has created a lawless zone around one person in this country. It is exactly what Putin and his lawmakers have.
Call me lazy, but I have yet to run across reporting of the constitutional justification for making a president immune?
And, why didn’t the documents case die on that day?
And, does that immunity extend to non-federal charges?
Incorrect. Trump just happens to be most glaring symptom and product of many political and institutional weaknesses and failures. Different rules for the rich and powerful, undeterred political corruption, no ethics in media, a vastly undereducated population... it has all been laid more bare this time around. Sure, he has grabbed the opportunity to help himself even more and is accelerating the demise of this country, but ultimately the environment was going to allow for a Trump to come along and do this.
I would go further than weakness and failures of institutions and suggest we have sound proof of corruption of institutions by big money. Look at Bill Bar. All these guys have long histories of being involved in Top level government corruption. His dates back to Iran Contra. Look at Steve Mnuchin too. These guys fail upward.
Bill Bar went from telling us Trump is unfit and a danger to now saying that Democrats need to stop saying Trump is a threat to democracy because he isn't. And he has his vote.
This is the guy that Trump (essentially )fired because he told him there was not election changing fraud. Now he is fully back in the Trump camp because he thinks that is where the money nd power will be.
I don't think that's quite right.
In Barr's brain, he's measuring threats.
Barr has decided that 'woke-ism' is more dangerous to American democracy than Trumpism.
And going with that. Barr will point out that Trump did leave office and will do so again in 2029. But Barr thinks four more years of 'woke-ism' could be fatal to the nation. So he votes for the lesser evil: DJT.
The Scotus has made prosecuting a president almost an impossibility ever again. For anything. People focus on the "official acts" as well as the outside perimeter acts. But the kiss of death for ever prosecuting a president is found in the deranged and off the wall ruling that nobody can ever introduce any evidence into a trial that could ever question a President's motives for doing anything! Nor any communication with anyone around him. it defies logic and goes contrary to the constitution.
What prosecutor would possibly bring any case with those hands tied?
The SCOTUS has created a lawless zone around one person in this country. It is exactly what Putin and his lawmakers have.
Call me lazy, but I have yet to run across reporting of the constitutional justification for making a president immune?
And, why didn’t the documents case die on that day?
And, does that immunity extend to non-federal charges?
If you go to PBS you can read the full SC ruling on presidential immunity.
The Scotus has made prosecuting a president almost an impossibility ever again. For anything. People focus on the "official acts" as well as the outside perimeter acts. But the kiss of death for ever prosecuting a president is found in the deranged and off the wall ruling that nobody can ever introduce any evidence into a trial that could ever question a President's motives for doing anything! Nor any communication with anyone around him. it defies logic and goes contrary to the constitution.
What prosecutor would possibly bring any case with those hands tied?
The SCOTUS has created a lawless zone around one person in this country. It is exactly what Putin and his lawmakers have.
Call me lazy, but I have yet to run across reporting of the constitutional justification for making a president immune?
And, why didn’t the documents case die on that day?
And, does that immunity extend to non-federal charges?
be careful here...scotus only said that presidents are immune for their official acts. Like ordering drone strikes on an American, like Obama apparently did.
There is absolutely nothing official about what trump did to overturn the election. The president has zero role in electing presidents. Zero. And is stealing national security documents an official act? No.
The ruling is less overwhelming than many think. Do we want Obama prosecuted for ordering the killing of a US citizen in a drone strike? Which he apparently did? Obviously not. that's what the ruling is about.
This post was edited 13 minutes after it was posted.
actually never mind... if trump wins the election he will just order the DOJ to drop the prosecutions completely. No self-pardon needed.
Not clear to me if the DOJ could take it up again in 2029 if a Dem wins and successfully takes office.
Also, not a great setup to have a mobster like trump know that if he leaves office he'll face prosecution. That's an incentive for him to NOT leave office. But we are a nation of laws and have to try to enforce them.
Agip, what do you think this country is going to look like in 2029 after another Trump term? Game over for democracy brother.
Both of you need to see a mental health specialist. Your doomer posts are hilarious 😂
An important thing to keep in mind. The SCOTUS did not make any determination that what Trump did was legal or not. Nor are they claiming Trump's crimes are not crimes at all.
They are simply saying that Trump can commit crimes free from immunity and nobody has the right to ever question that. Nor investigate it. Even it is appears there was a blatant crime, all courts should always lean towards immunity on the outer perimeter acts. And if there is ever any question on "personal acts" the Supreme Court will ultimately decide.
Agip, what do you think this country is going to look like in 2029 after another Trump term? Game over for democracy brother.
Both of you need to see a mental health specialist. Your doomer posts are hilarious 😂
"end of democracy!" Turn off PMSNBC.
If Trump wins his reelection, 2029 will come around, Trump will step down and hand the keys to the Oval Office to his successor. Everything will happen peacefully. By then the country may be ready for a less conservative president. Who knows. Joe Manchin maybe?
Agip, what do you think this country is going to look like in 2029 after another Trump term? Game over for democracy brother.
Both of you need to see a mental health specialist. Your doomer posts are hilarious 😂
"end of democracy!" Turn off PMSNBC.
seriously...when Trump broke his oath of office loudly and publicly in his first term when he called for the Constitution to be terminated....pretty clear he'll try again to finish the job. And we should all be radically concerned.
We should all vote against the chance of him succeeding next time. Even Gary should vote against that.
DJT: A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
I would go further than weakness and failures of institutions and suggest we have sound proof of corruption of institutions by big money. Look at Bill Bar. All these guys have long histories of being involved in Top level government corruption. His dates back to Iran Contra. Look at Steve Mnuchin too. These guys fail upward.
Bill Bar went from telling us Trump is unfit and a danger to now saying that Democrats need to stop saying Trump is a threat to democracy because he isn't. And he has his vote.
This is the guy that Trump (essentially )fired because he told him there was not election changing fraud. Now he is fully back in the Trump camp because he thinks that is where the money nd power will be.
I don't think that's quite right.
In Barr's brain, he's measuring threats.
Barr has decided that 'woke-ism' is more dangerous to American democracy than Trumpism.
And going with that. Barr will point out that Trump did leave office and will do so again in 2029. But Barr thinks four more years of 'woke-ism' could be fatal to the nation. So he votes for the lesser evil: DJT.
I think you are being way too gullible. The wokeism stuff is for the base. These guys like power and money and the wokeism stuff is fuel to get them there. But I do believe Barr has a real fear of being on the other side of Trumps promised retribution and Project 2025 consolidation of executive power.
Agip, what do you think this country is going to look like in 2029 after another Trump term? Game over for democracy brother.
We don't know that.
Israel is surviving Bibi, Hungary is sort of surviving Orban, Italy survived Berlusconi...we won't emerge unscathed but it's not necessarily game over. Undermined and weakened, but we've been through that before and rebuilt.
It doesn't happen overnight, but we got J6 and a huge portion of the country preferring autocracy over democracy in just 4 years. Trump is openly telling us all he's going to finish democracy off. We don't have guardrails to prevent or deal with a criminal president, with a party that protects the leader at all costs, or a corrupt SCOTUS. So with that in mind and knowing that Trump is a criminal, that some around him have also committed crimes to protect him, and that others are lined up to do the same knowing there won't be any consequences, what makes you think we are equipped to survive this?
Both of you need to see a mental health specialist. Your doomer posts are hilarious 😂
"end of democracy!" Turn off PMSNBC.
seriously...when Trump broke his oath of office loudly and publicly in his first term when he called for the Constitution to be terminated....pretty clear he'll try again to finish the job. And we should all be radically concerned.
We should all vote against the chance of him succeeding next time. Even Gary should vote against that.
DJT: A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution
Gary doesn't care even if it comes out of his Master's mouth. He's in the cult.
Call me lazy, but I have yet to run across reporting of the constitutional justification for making a president immune?
And, why didn’t the documents case die on that day?
And, does that immunity extend to non-federal charges?
be careful here...scotus only said that presidents are immune for their official acts. Like ordering drone strikes on an American, like Obama apparently did.
There is absolutely nothing official about what trump did to overturn the election. The president has zero role in electing presidents. Zero. And is stealing national security documents an official act? No.
The ruling is less overwhelming than many think. Do we want Obama prosecuted for ordering the killing of a US citizen in a drone strike? Which he apparently did? Obviously not. that's what the ruling is about.
They'll move the goalpost to protect Trump as needed.
I would go further than weakness and failures of institutions and suggest we have sound proof of corruption of institutions by big money. Look at Bill Bar. All these guys have long histories of being involved in Top level government corruption. His dates back to Iran Contra. Look at Steve Mnuchin too. These guys fail upward.
Bill Bar went from telling us Trump is unfit and a danger to now saying that Democrats need to stop saying Trump is a threat to democracy because he isn't. And he has his vote.
This is the guy that Trump (essentially )fired because he told him there was not election changing fraud. Now he is fully back in the Trump camp because he thinks that is where the money nd power will be.
I don't think that's quite right.
In Barr's brain, he's measuring threats.
Barr has decided that 'woke-ism' is more dangerous to American democracy than Trumpism.
And going with that. Barr will point out that Trump did leave office and will do so again in 2029. But Barr thinks four more years of 'woke-ism' could be fatal to the nation. So he votes for the lesser evil: DJT.
Nope, the fact trail points to money and power always being the driving forces. These guys turn on a fkn dime every single time. What they say in public is just to feed the gullible.
seriously...when Trump broke his oath of office loudly and publicly in his first term when he called for the Constitution to be terminated....pretty clear he'll try again to finish the job. And we should all be radically concerned.
We should all vote against the chance of him succeeding next time. Even Gary should vote against that.
DJT: A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution
Gary doesn't care even if it comes out of his Master's mouth. He's in the cult.
How many 3rd world countries have anything like NASA? Or the first domed stadium in the world? Or the energy capital of the world? But the loss of power did suck. I didn't have power for 5 days and the temps are like 81 in the morning with high humidity and heat indexes of like 108 in the afternoon. Houston is the most air-conditioned city in the world and many of us had no power for more than a week.
Gary doesn't care even if it comes out of his Master's mouth. He's in the cult.
How many 3rd world countries have anything like NASA? Or the first domed stadium in the world? Or the energy capital of the world? But the loss of power did suck. I didn't have power for 5 days and the temps are like 81 in the morning with high humidity and heat indexes of like 108 in the afternoon. Houston is the most air-conditioned city in the world and many of us had no power for more than a week.
Also has the BEST medical center in the world. The very best. Heads of state who are dying don't go to NY or California but come to Houston for treatment.
Israel is surviving Bibi, Hungary is sort of surviving Orban, Italy survived Berlusconi...we won't emerge unscathed but it's not necessarily game over. Undermined and weakened, but we've been through that before and rebuilt.
It doesn't happen overnight, but we got J6 and a huge portion of the country preferring autocracy over democracy in just 4 years. Trump is openly telling us all he's going to finish democracy off. We don't have guardrails to prevent or deal with a criminal president, with a party that protects the leader at all costs, or a corrupt SCOTUS. So with that in mind and knowing that Trump is a criminal, that some around him have also committed crimes to protect him, and that others are lined up to do the same knowing there won't be any consequences, what makes you think we are equipped to survive this?
There you go again with your "end of democracy" doomer posts. Seek help.