Alec Baldwin just shot and KILLED a woman on a movie set

Hurno. wrote:

Adam Smith, Capitalist wrote:

Keep on digging the hole, buddy. Maybe you'll fool Flagpole (no great feat), but at least your mistake is obvious to semi-intelligent poeple.

I want to be very clear here...

I'm one of the "semi-intelligent poeple." he speaks of...

I'm glad you acknowledged your limitations there. And to enlighten the semi- intelligent we have this.

Here, both the law and the facts suggest he is innocent of any criminal conduct. On the contrary, he may be fairly viewed as one of the surviving victims of this horrific incident, likely to be haunted for the rest of his life by the role he unintentionally played in causing Hutchins' death.

Baldwin did not have the responsibility to stop the rehearsal and examine the gun's cylinder to determine that the supposed "cold gun" was loaded with blanks. By custom and practice in the movie industry, an actor has the right to rely on other individuals on set with the responsibility to ensure that prop firearms are safe for use. Police likely would want to interview the film's "armorer," Hannah Gutierrez, who has yet to provide a public statement, and the assistant director who passed the weapon in question to Baldwin.

While many of the facts have yet to be revealed by prosecutors, this case could even turn out to be a form of "depraved mind" murder under New Mexico's murder statutes. If live ammunition was deliberately loaded into the firearm handed to Baldwin by an individual who knew the gun would be fired at other actors on set, this would become a murder case and not merely a tragic accident.

Hurno. wrote:

I think this thread has more than ran it's course for now...

You're going to take a break?

Hurno. wrote:

Sir Mix Alot wrote:

That's called involuntary manslaughter.

"Witness dismissed your honor"- ;)

exactly...that should be the charge, and will be decided in court.

I have no horses in this race

It won't be.

danube steak wrote:

jamb innn wrote:

If I handed you a gun, told you it was unloaded, would you check it before you put it to your own head and pulled the trigger?

I know what the smartest posters in this thread would say.

According to Flagpole, if whoever gives you the gun has assured you that it is "safe" then you are good to go. No reason to check the gun yourself. Just stick it to your head and fire away. You need to trust that person with your life.

Well all that indicates is that Flagpole is an idiot.

Some of you left wing extremists need to have a chat with your fellow left wing extremists who dominate the personal injury legal profession. These folks get rich by establishing legal liability with much less to work with then what is presented here. Baldwin, your little hero, literally shot and killed his coworker. And if murder isn’t enough, you can go with criminal negligence on his part as the producer who was responsible for ensuring a safe work environment. He’s got both civil and criminal liability. Hopefully he ends up in prison and is forced to transfer all of his assets to his victims.

Both of those things will happen.

Angelo Pappas wrote:

Some of you left wing extremists need to have a chat with your fellow left wing extremists who dominate the personal injury legal profession. These folks get rich by establishing legal liability with much less to work with then what is presented here. Baldwin, your little hero, literally shot and killed his coworker. And if murder isn’t enough, you can go with criminal negligence on his part as the producer who was responsible for ensuring a safe work environment. He’s got both civil and criminal liability. Hopefully he ends up in prison and is forced to transfer all of his assets to his victims.

You're addressing the same people that turned George Floyd, a violent scumbag criminal, into a martyr. These people are messed up in the head on criminal justice.

At least they all probably got their COVID shots though.

Ah, I finally found a source who is knowledgeable on movie set armorer protocol. There are three basic types of ammo. Live rounds (that are never allowed on the set), blanks with powder but no projectile (bullet), and dummy rounds. Dummy rounds are used in revolvers when the bullet can be seen in the open chamber when the revolver is pointed towards the camera, but dummy rounds have no gunpowder. Instead, they have BBs so you can shake them and hear them rattle like a spray paint rattle can.

To me, this is a weak link in the safety protocol. Dummy rounds should not just have a sound difference, they should be visibly different. Painting the end of the casing red or green would be a simple step. An actor could open the cylinder, rotate it, and see if the rounds were all dummies. This would take maybe five seconds.

Having been an extra on a movie set, two things stood out. 1) Time is money. A minute wasted is thousands of dollars. Having the assistant shake every round and hand it to the actor who has to shake every round would take at least a couple of minutes. 2) It's a dictatorship. The director gives orders and the subordinates enforce actions like storm troopers. No asking questions. Shut up. Do your piece of the job. Underlings scurry around afraid to lose their cushy job by upsetting someone up the line. I could see why people would rush protocols.

Obviously, the safety protocols failed here several times for this accident to happen.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/alec-baldwin-shooting-rust-movie-munitions-experts-gun-safety-1235035713/

If Aunt Becky had to do time for putting her thumb on the college admissions scale, I’d have to imagine that someone involved in this farce deserves to be punished for the mistakes leading to the deadly shooting.

bio Domer wrote:

If Aunt Becky had to do time for putting her thumb on the college admissions scale, I’d have to imagine that someone involved in this farce deserves to be punished for the mistakes leading to the deadly shooting.

1) She knowingly committed a crime and deserved the little bit of time she had to serve.

2) SOMEONE probably will be punished for the mistakes leading up to this deadly shooting, BUT it won't be Alec Baldwin...and rightfully so. He had every reasonable expectation to think that gun was safe to use in the manner in which he was using it. Either the dude who handed him the gun who declared it was "cold" and/or the props woman will AND SHOULD face some charges here. Baldwin should not, and I believe will not.

Crew members on the set of "Rust" used guns with live ammunition and engaged in a pastime called "plinking" hours before Halyna Hutchins was killed, founder and CEO of The Wrap, Sharon Waxman, told CNN's Don Lemon Monday night, citing information from an individual with knowledge of the set.

One of the guns used was later handed to actor Alec Baldwin, who fired the shot that killed Hutchins, 42, and injured director Joel Souza, The Wrap reported.

"There's this pastime that crew members sometimes do, it's called 'plinking,' and they go out into the rural areas and they shoot at beer cans. This is with live ammunition. We learned that this happened the morning of the day that Halyna Hutchins was killed," Waxman said.

She didn't know it was a crime.

The part you quoted was in response to those who were making claims that Hollywood is a dangerous industry with little to no controls in place. I doubt that it really is that unsafe, just that the controls weren’t followed in this accident.

But I am glad you aren’t one of the idiots claiming that he will be found criminally liable for pulling the trigger.

OLD SMTC SOB wrote:

danube steak wrote:

According to Flagpole, if whoever gives you the gun has assured you that it is "safe" then you are good to go. No reason to check the gun yourself. Just stick it to your head and fire away. You need to trust that person with your life.

Well all that indicates is that Flagpole is an idiot.

Well, I would not do that, of course. I have already stated that had I been in Baldwin's position, I would have made sure to know full well how those prop guns worked, what kind of "ammo" was in them, made the dude who handed it to me show me it was either unloaded or loaded with blanks, and of course I would not put the gun to my head and pull the trigger as troll Sally said (whom I won't be responding to directly). What I would personally do though does NOT mean that what Baldwin did makes him culpable, because it doesn't.

You will see that I am correct. He will not be found guilty of a crime here, and he likely will not even be charged with a crime. If he is punished in any way it will be a fine or some small thing like that that he is given due to his position as a "Producer". He simply is not guilty of any crime here.

Jon James is really stubborn wrote:

She didn't know it was a crime.

She's knowingly commit the fraudulent act...whether she knew it was an actual crime is immaterial.

She deserved her small bit of prison time. Baldwin does not deserve prison time and I believe will not face any.

Aaron Rodgers commits fraud 50 times in every game when he makes a pass fake. I commit fraud every day when I tell me wife I will vacuum the carpet. Comparing fraud to murder is ridiculous. You and a few other posters have disgusted me with your callousness.

Jon James is really stubborn wrote:

Aaron Rodgers commits fraud 50 times in every game when he makes a pass fake. I commit fraud every day when I tell me wife I will vacuum the carpet. Comparing fraud to murder is ridiculous. You and a few other posters have disgusted me with your callousness.

1) I have not compared fraud to murder.

2) Alex Baldwin isn't guilty of murder (or manslaughter or any other crime for that matter).

Armstronglivs wrote:

Crew members on the set of "Rust" used guns with live ammunition and engaged in a pastime called "plinking" hours before Halyna Hutchins was killed, founder and CEO of The Wrap, Sharon Waxman, told CNN's Don Lemon Monday night, citing information from an individual with knowledge of the set.

One of the guns used was later handed to actor Alec Baldwin, who fired the shot that killed Hutchins, 42, and injured director Joel Souza, The Wrap reported.

Oof, This seems likely how the live round got into the gun in question. From reading the earlier article regarding movie gun saftey (the Hollywood Reporter article a couple posts up from this), there's so many safety items that were ignored. Any one of them could have prevented this. Per the Hollywood Reporter article, all involved failed every one of the following:

- Live ammunition is never to be used nor brought onto any studio lot or stage.

- Treat all firearms as though they are loaded.

- Never have your finger on the trigger or pull the trigger until you’re ready to discharge the weapon.

- Never point the weapon at anything that can be harmed or injured.

- Always be aware of what’s in front, behind and on all sides of what you’re aiming for.

- Never fire at or near the camera. Sometimes the shot may require it, in which case, the entire area must be cleared for safety precautions.

- Include a shielding sheet of acrylic Plexiglass between the gun-wielding actor and whoever is behind the camera, as well as to dress the operator in a robe-like Kevlar garment.

I like the earlier suggestion of painting the ends dummy rounds to better identify them. It's quite possible the gun in this case had one live round left from the earlier plinking session. The remaining chambers could have been loaded with dummy bullets. Shaking the gun would have rattled the bb's in the dummy rounds, giving the false impression that it was cold.

Latest reports have indicated some of the crew were using the guns for recreational "target practice", and this had occurred the morning the film editor was killed. This itself raises questions about gun safety protocols by the company. But it also leads to the inference that one of the guns so used remained loaded and this was failed to be picked up by those whose responsibility it was to check them.