Serious thread about election fraud

PresidentTrump wrote:

Biden getting 10 million votes more than Obama is also very hard to believe.

Why? Our population has grown by about 15 million people between the elections. I haven't dug in to see the size of legal-aged voters, but my guess is it's grown in a similar fashion. That, combined with the push by both parties to register new voters and the ease of voting by mail vs going to a polling place and/or waiting in line easily explains why more votes were cast in this election (by both parties).

You have to understand that Donald Trump is like the Hillary Clinton of the Republican Party. Hillary is a lightning rod of hatred on the right. Donald Trump is a lightning rod of hatred on the left. I wasn't surprised when Hillary lost. I know a lot of moderate conservatives that would never consider voting for her. Many of those same moderate conservatives refused to vote for Trump this time around.

8 and 12 years ago, Obama was running against centrist Republicans, McCain and Romney.

Taking all that into consideration, it's not "very hard to believe" that Biden got 10 million more votes than Obama. Is it very hard to believe that Trump got 11 million more votes than Romney?

MelRnr wrote:

I myself have been a registered Republican for 20 years. In 2016 I couldn't support either candidate, so I did a write in for Kasich. This year I voted for Biden.

Look at all the Republicans that actively campaigned against Trump this year. The Lincoln Project, Bush alums, George Will, Bill Kristol, even former Trump adminstration officials.and others. All of them pointing out that Trump is a dishonest autocrat and a threat to our republic.

A significant number of center-right minded people split their ballot.

A couple things.

1) Did you really vote that way? That mirrors my voting past almost verbatim. I am currently a strong Dem because I have always been socially liberal and I am waiting for the GOP to take back the party before considering any support what-so-ever.

2) While I love groups that spend their time, energy, and money to point out obvious transgressions, I am always suspect of the fringe groups. I consider the Lincoln Project, Breitbart, talking heads with their own show and agenda (Carlson, Hannity, Maddow...) etc. as fringe groups. They seem almost bitter that "their" group is not in power and they will do whatever it takes to get themselves and their agenda back in vogue. I know I did a poor job explaining this but you might get what I am trying to say.

Who in their right mind thought it was smart to push an a$$hole of a person reality show star with a history of failure, racism, deceipt, lies, self-agrandizing, ................. How could people outside the fringe crazies not know what he meant by 'make america great again'? A return to 1950 was not great for a large segment of people.

Yes, I did write in Kasich in 2016 and vote Biden this year.

I'm probably a little different. I'm conservative on certain issues and more liberal on others. I'm a practicing Catholic. So conservative on many social issues. I'm proud of America being accepting of immigrants throughout our history, so I support a path to legal status and citizenship for productive law abiding undocumented immigrants. I'm against the NRA, because I think common sense gun control is not necessarily a violation of the 2nd amendment and the NRA really supports gun manufacturers who oversupply guns which flood the illegal gun market and criminals.

I'm a veteran and have always been a very patriotic American. I also recognize that others who don't agree with everything I do can also be patriotic Americans. I recognize that some people do hate our country and would like to create a new system, but those people exist on both the extreme left and the extreme right.

I'm not ready yet to give up on the Republican Party. I still have hope that common sense can prevail. Just as I'm always optimistic about America, although that optimism has been tested in recent years. Also, I live in a closed primary state, so staying in the party gives me that small bit of influence in it.

I swore to support and defend the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic. I simply could not stand to see our democracy and our values whittled away by this lying wanna be despot.

I might have been misleading when I said I was socially liberal. I am not for open immigration but more as you described it. I am open to others having equal rights under the constitution.

I did not serve and have nothing but respect for those who did. I appreciate their views on things as they come from a place I do not but one I honor. To hear common sense approaches to things like guns & immigration is refreshing.

Thanks for your candid reply and hopefully both parties can nudge toward the middle and people like John McCain can again represent and steer the GOP.

Unbelievable; it's been 10 days and you are tired of Republicans complaining about losing? You guys did it FOR FOUR YEARS! Gore stretched it out for a month, the very least the lefties can do is let trump follow through on all his options. It's really the very least they can do after all the riots and twitter banning and blaming trump for covid when responses were at least 90% a the state level and had covid never happened there is no way in the world trump would have lost.

Systematic voter fraud in the US doesn’t exist. It’s impossible. Anyone who thinks differently is kidding themselves, delusional or a jerk trolling.

Are there small instances where a dead person is sent a ballot or some person steals some ballots and sends them in? Yes and a lot of time they are caught.

Are there instances where a conspiracy to commit systematic voter fraud to influence an election happen. No. A conspiracy that big couldn’t be hidden. To move even 1% of a states ballots would be impossible to hide.

These types of false accusation and frivolous conspiracy mongering is what’s tearing us apart. It’s the every kid gets a prize mentality that no one can accept a defeat without feeling slighted.

Thanks. Yes, that's my hope. It's funny that many new Republican Trump supporters are people who didn't participate in politics much before, if at all. Trump did grow the party, but it seems many of his hardcore base are actually anti-government types. Sovereign Sheriff nonsense believers and such, QAnnon supporters now. These people don't seem to have read the Constitution.

MelRnr wrote:

Thanks. Yes, that's my hope. It's funny that many new Republican Trump supporters are people who didn't participate in politics much before, if at all. Trump did grow the party, but it seems many of his hardcore base are actually anti-government types. Sovereign Sheriff nonsense believers and such, QAnnon supporters now. These people don't seem to have read the Constitution.

Those Trump supporters, like the extreme factions on the other side, seem to come from a place of anger. The Trumpers have been convnced that immigrants, or those not exactly like them are trying to steal their piece of the pie. They have so much anger that they readily buy into it without looking at the big picture of wages & working conditions, health care, social security, etc. However, I still want to hear what they and the far left think. I won't to know why they feel so disenfranchised. The problem is that they are so staunch in the process that they seem like they don't really want answers, just the fight. It seems more about being right than whatever right is. That is the bane of a two party system in my eyes. What are your thoughts on it?

Preach, Mel & George, Preach!

https://media.tenor.com/images/29e84290142aede120c9fe8158656260/tenor.gif

I think we are to see quite a few people start to re-write history here.

Those who were calling for a coup, legislators to go against the will of the voters, saying all Dem votes are bad, lying about imaginary bogeymen are suddenly going to claim,

"Hey, I was just asking questions because it felt a little off". (even though it wasn't)

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM wrote:

Systematic voter fraud in the US doesn’t exist. It’s impossible. Anyone who thinks differently is kidding themselves, delusional or a jerk trolling.

No one with any semblance of an understanding of the voting process thinks that one side could rig an election by hundreds of thousands of votes.

george c wrote:

Those Trump supporters, like the extreme ons on the other side, seem to come from a place of anger. The Trumpers have been convnced that immigrants, or those not exactly like them are trying to steal their piece of the pie. They have so much anger that they readily buy into it without looking at the big picture of wages & working conditions, health care, social security, etc. However, I still want to hear what they and the far left think. I won't to know why they feel so disenfranchised. The problem is that they are so staunch in the process that they seem like they don't really want answers, just the fight. It seems more about being right than whatever right is. That is the bane of a two party system in my eyes. What are your thoughts on it?

I think Trump provided the best opportunity "to own the libs". But clearly some of his voters are happy to support progressive causes because it would help them too. The best example of this while Trump got a ton of votes and won Florida, the state also voted overwhelmingly for $15 min. wage- which is clearly opposed by Trump and the GOP.

I don't get this disconnect

Trump is a real man who stands up for himself when others want him to fold because it is inconvenient. Too bad. There was fraud before and the losers conceded defeat anyways but Trump will not put up with it. The fake news media doesn't like it and convinces the public Trump is crazy and there's no fraud which is a complete lie. The sheep believe it though. The lying media pushed the Russian interference lie nonstop on Trump and now they dismiss the truth as merit less and unsubstantiated. F tHE lying Media and the sheep.

Of the 15 million population increase at least 25% was below voting age; turnout was a record 66% ( compared to 62% in 2008) that accounts for an increase of 7.4M over both parties. Applying the increased turnout of 4% to the rest of the voting population gets you another 8 million. The increase of 21 million is definitely more than I would expect.

Trump getting more than romney as incumbent is not unbelievable but what is hard to believe is after months of the media understating trump support and the boarded up buildings in anticipation of lefty riots didn't dissuade trump voters more.

Based on all the major economic indicators, especially pre covid, Trump was in line for a solid win.

Except it wasn't pre-COVID.

Had Enough wrote:

I think Trump provided the best opportunity "to own the libs". But clearly some of his voters are happy to support progressive causes because it would help them too. The best example of this while Trump got a ton of votes and won Florida, the state also voted overwhelmingly for $15 min. wage- which is clearly opposed by Trump and the GOP.

I don't get this disconnect

Well, just look at the post following yours. "He is a man standing up....." bravodo bull. He has never stood up in his life telling lies and cheating for himself and those that financially support him. The rest of the post was jibberish and flat out incorrect statements.

You bring up a good point with the Florida vote for $15. I am going to research it a little further.

I have said throughout this thread that the very stuff the Trumpers seem to stand for hurts themselves far more than anyone else (working conditions and wages, health care, social security, etc.). But as you said, they can "own libs" which I think plays out in a lot of cases and is one of the faults of a two party system.

They can lose health care, ignore a virus that is killing hundreds of thousands, run up a nathional debt that will cripple our children and grandchildren, lose social security etc. etc..........but "those transgender people who make their lives tough beyond comprehension are doing so, so that they can assult kids in bathrooms will be stopped"!

Just mindless following someone who only paints the picture he does for personal power and money. The very kind of person his supporters claim they hate.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM wrote:

Systematic voter fraud in the US doesn’t exist. It’s impossible. Anyone who thinks differently is kidding themselves, delusional or a jerk trolling.

Are there small instances where a dead person is sent a ballot or some person steals some ballots and sends them in? Yes and a lot of time they are caught.

Are there instances where a conspiracy to commit systematic voter fraud to influence an election happen. No. A conspiracy that big couldn’t be hidden. To move even 1% of a states ballots would be impossible to hide.

These types of false accusation and frivolous conspiracy mongering is what’s tearing us apart. It’s the every kid gets a prize mentality that no one can accept a defeat without feeling slighted.

Systemic racism is the US doesn't exist. It's impossible. Anyone's who thinks differently is kidding themselves, delusional, or jerk trolling.

These types of false information/ partisan 'science' and frivolous conspiracy mongering (regarding Covid 19 from the Left) is what's tearing us apart. (Both teams are guilty of this).

Agingrunner wrote:

Systemic racism is the US doesn't exist. It's impossible. Anyone's who thinks differently is kidding themselves, delusional, or jerk trolling.

These types of false information/ partisan 'science' and frivolous conspiracy mongering (regarding Covid 19 from the Left) is what's tearing us apart. (Both teams are guilty of this).

I won’t argue with you I respect that you hold that belief & I know I won’t change your mind.

I think people should stop listening to politicians though to get their news. They are simply elected by us to do our bidding they aren’t special. They’ve convinced us they know better and we should listen to them when it’s the opposite. They should be listening to us.

George, you like to believe that you are open minded, but you really aren't. Its very obvious that you get all or least most of your information from Left leaning sources. I am from the deep south in a heavily conservative, pro Trump area. We are not against immigrants (they are more than welcome here). We are against illegal immigration. We aren't homophobic, nor transphobic. We don't like hearing over and over again how those dumb Rednecks don't like POC, gays, transgender people, women, Muslims, etc.. Constantly being called these things (especially racist to me) makes us hate people like you (a liberal). I have a few guns, but have them secured. We don't think that you can, nor will try to take them. Most of my friends don't like the NRA either. Most of are Christians. We are constantly being mocked and ridiculed. It's all over this site. You may have not done it, but liberals even on LRC constantly are. You don't have to believe in Jesus Christ, but you don't have to mock us either calling us science denier either. Which brings me to science. You have to admit, at least in the short time, that data produced by scientists and other experts can be manipulated to fit a political position. By the way, I'm on health care and have the time to even touch the surface on that. Good day and good luck in life.