So great coaches have to lie & cheat, very strange attitude.
So great coaches have to lie & cheat, very strange attitude.
Again - you are simply drawing conclusions that are not based on reality. You are now blaming the coach because an athlete either left the program willingly, or was kicked out, or some other combination of truth. Regardless a coach doesn't owe an athlete a program, and its a free country - go find another program that works for you. Sometimes its no-ones fault. Lots of people went on to other programs and ran faster - other came here and ran faster - who cares. The athlete and coach have to gel in order to truly work together. Not everyone makes a team - people get cut , or quit or cant hack it.
You argue that - "Some athletes left the program never to reach their potential because of DST." I call BS on that - good athletes will never let a coach stop them - good grief, these are individual sports we are talking about. Ask any elite athlete how many moves they make in their careers to seek out coaches that get them. DST helped lots of athletes reach their potential - other not so much - so what - thats life. As far as I know he did his best and I am guessing he is paying for the mistake he made a long time ago.
over blowing this story wrote:
Boy you really are convinced of things - seriously - you argue
" Even one ethical abuse, if it is telling enough, is sufficient to discredit decades of success. But then, in cases like this, there is NEVER just one ethical abuse. Once some people experience real impunity, they simply can't help themselves"
Success is success, its simple, results are results, they were not ill-gotten, they were earned by the athlete and coach. You can't erase them, no one cheated to get them. As a coach - I got nothing but respect from him.
You should just come clean and admit that you don't think anything DST is accused of is all that serious, and that what's most important is success in the modest little world of Canadian athletics. The only example you seem to care about is the one DST set by winning. The one he set by abusing trust, lying, and violating simple ethics in order to do so clearly doesn't matter much to you.
Someone is always winning and someone's always losing. If you don't exemplify good character in both instances, no one ultimately cares about or respects you-- except perhaps others with a distorted view of the ultimate value of sport. The sad aspect of DST is that he clearly had a lot of admirable skills and qualities; but, it only takes one instance of really bad ethics to render those irrelevant. From now on, the gut reaction of anyone who hears is name (or Salazar's, or Harvey Weinstein's-- both also very successful men) is going to be a degree of revulsion, no matter how much you go on about his sports success. And that gut reaction is a very healthy and hopeful one.
Doesn’t sound like he’s paying for anything; he was paid to do all these things & now he’s not being paid. No real punishment.
over blowing this story wrote:
Sometimes its no-ones fault. Lots of people went on to other programs and ran faster - other came here and ran faster - who cares.
.
When you say "here" above I assume this means you're a Guelph coach or athlete. Can you confirm?
You dont think that being all over the media and fired from your job is "not paying for it" now?
I mean you obviously have drank the guelph cool aid and don't care what I say. But I'll finish by saying my experience is that while Guelph has had a lot of success it also has had problems too and an unusual number of negative stories for a varsity team on how individuals where treated. I'm willing to see the good of the program and respect the success of athletes like Gillis and Coolseat as they found a system that worked for them and changed Canadian marathoning but I cannot and will not respect DST based on how he treated several athletes. If you are going to fault just the athletes for not reaching their potential, maybe you shouldn't give the coach any credit when they are successful.
I wonder what any other of the highly skilled coaches in this country could have built if their athletes, program and facilities had been funded by their national and provincial governing bodies at the unfathomable (by CDN standards) level Guelph received...
it wasn't a ‘bid scandal’ wrote:
What was the scandal and wrongdoing? Was money exchanged behind the scenes? Were favours offered and accepted? Was there illegal activity involved in the bid?
Losing an appeal doesn’t make it a scandal. Sounds like AC made the mistake in that case, but have you proved any wrongdoing from Speed River?
Really? Let me summarize:
-Guelph had two of its personnel on the AC competitions committee, neither of whom had any prior AC committee experience, and neither of whom recused himself from vetting or arguing for Guelph's bid.
-Three weeks before the bid deadline, Dave announced to Guelph city council that Speed River had been "asked to host" the 2015-18 AC XC Championships.
-Guelph's initial "winning" bid was incomplete (it did not contain a budget), and its course didn't come close to meeting the basic specs.
-Our bid was deemed to be superior in every facet by an independent appeal committee.
-Money did not change hands in the process, but a lot of money was at stake-- up to 100,000 over 4 years for someone with the skills to leverage the opportunity (which Guelph could, because we actually did.)
Where there is smoke, there is fire. We knew it then and everyone knows it now: Dave was willing to lie to get and protect what he wanted.
tadoorunrun wrote:
I wonder what any other of the highly skilled coaches in this country could have built if their athletes, program and facilities had been funded by their national and provincial governing bodies at the unfathomable (by CDN standards) level Guelph received...
Windsor had the facility in 1983.Did it attract talented athletes? Probably. Guelph had to rebuild an indoor track from a substandard entity a few years back. Did the substandard facility bring in athletes. No. Dave did, and they trained outside the city in Marsden.
That argument doesn't hold up.
You could just as easily argue that all the abuse was dst’s personal responsibility, but I doubt you will.
Again you dont have to wonder - cause the answer would more than likely be "none" I am not sure what world you live in and what you think DST did to get funding for Guelph? He created a program that was successful and AC decided that funding some of the programs in Guelph was worth throwing some money at. Go ahead and create a program and then go after funding. If you are curious about how much funding AC gave Guelph - go look it up? Its in public accounts somewhere.
I agree - I have always argued that coaches try to take to much credit for the athletes they coach - but thats a different topic. You cant keep a true athlete down!! I dont drink Guelph Kook Aid - I can see there were lots of problems with the program - but there is not a program in the world with high-performance athletes that doesnt have issues.
So it’s ethical to bid on a race without any attempt to provide a compliant course for the athletes?
Just one of many mistakes you just made.
Is it ethical to state that you have already won the bid before any announcement?
jesseriley wrote:
You could just as easily argue that all the abuse was dst’s personal responsibility, but I doubt you will.
We certainly agree on the dst/ salazar parallels.
These types enjoy the money & power; if they didn’t, they would just continue to help athletes on their own time, as I and most people do.
jesseriley wrote:
So it’s ethical to bid on a race without any attempt to provide a compliant course for the athletes?Just one of many mistakes you just made.
Australian coach hates on his own gold medalist for her mild anti-wokery
2024 College Track & Field Open Coaching Positions Discussion
So they had a guy with one of his nuts hanging out by a kid at the opening Ceremony.....
From #1 (Grant Fisher) to #33 Whittni Morgan - Here as the US Mid-D and Distance Runners' Medal Odds
Fair or foul: Eurosport Olympic swimming announcer fired on the spot - for making a joke?
Does anyone really want to see any more of Simone Biles? Come on - no one does!