Jess Hull progression - nothing to see here

Then why didn't the rest of the race believe that?

It's a split second decision. I'd guess that Muir (probably the only other person in the race with fitness comparable to Jess) assumed there'd be Faith on WR pace and then a race for second. Jess hopped right on Faith (have a crack or blow up trying) and Muir was behind Galant who was slow, she missed the ride and the pace is so hot then that it's too hard to go around and jump on.

I fully believe if Muir was behind Faith from the gun she'd have ran 3.52/51.

Again. 3:50. Not sure why this is so hard to grasp.

Where's your doping limit then. 3.51? 3.53? Seems mad to just have a number in mind and anything else, no matter the context, is doped. May as well not follow the sport if that's the case.

Do you have a doped time for US Collegiates? US High schoolers? If you look at their jumps over the past 5 years then it's a similar story.

No, it isn't a "split-second decision". The argument is that it was self belief. Why she should have it and others nothing like it?

Everyone has a different amount of talent. Women dope who run 5:00. There is no time that indicates doping. Extreme leanness is a sign. Extra musculature is a sign. Hull has gotten very lean. Tuohy is very muscular. Hiltz has gotten leaner.

Muir rarely runs like that. She tends to do better sitting off a ridiculous pace then blasting past everyone in the last lap. So it’s not on her radar to go with Faith. She said herself she has to run her own race.

Jess said she always planned to go for it in this race. She said she was happy to die trying keep up with Faith. So she was happy to take that risk of blowing up when Muir wasn’t. But Muir knows her own limits too.

Yep, Kangaroo soup is the latest dietary fad in running...

Running very close to the rail on all bends is a huge factor. Not many runners get to do that essentially the whole way while drafting.

You are now being intentionally obtuse. Give up.

You would need to be a biased Aussie to miss all the threads about Nikki being a doper. And that is just running 3:56s which is a lap/sec back. We aren’t talking about people running 3:53 here…

I agree - last couple of pages seem to have several posts intimating that the bunch of women 'stuck' at c 3.55-57 are lacking self belief that they can run faster, that Hull until last week was amongst this self-limiting posse and that in Paris she went for the physiological limit on the night and left the others in her wake, confined by their mental shackles. It's BS i think - almost from the same drawer as the myth that after Bannister in May 1954 everyone and his dog were doing sub 4.

Would be interesting to see Hull's travel itinerary - long haul fights in particular - in the 4-5 weeks pre the week before Paris; and to see how these may have synched with any OOC tests over same period. I'm def not saying she is an obvious doper (Oz has a very good record in its elite endurance history - I realise the thread's conspiracy theorists won't give this any value) but it's an exceptional set of stats she capped off with the 3.50.8.

I am Australian as well. If you believe she's got a 5 second PB in her a her age good luck to you. You believe she's clean? Kipyego clean? Totally natural? You believe the marathon records of 2 flat and 2:11 are clean? I'm afraid my faith doesn't extend that far.

AHHHH, thank you!

Most of us didn't realize that Hull was simply not fully focused for any of the last few seasons: leading to the Tokyo Olympics at age 24, the Eugene World Championships at age 25, or the Budapest Championships at age 26,

Great that you have explained that she was simply too future-focused to run faster back then, when she was getting beaten in races running 3:57-:58 over and over.

All it took was little bit of "peaking" for her to take over 6 seconds off her PB at age of 27! Good old peaking!

If only someone would explain this to the rest of the world! It seems nobody else understands they can improve by 6+ seconds in one year by simply focusing on a championship year.

Not fully focused. Undertrained. Low mileage. Multisport athete. Yada. Yada. Yada. Never changes.

In the other hand, what is she doing differently now 3:50 versus back at pre (3:55). Did she start doing drugs in the last couple months? Seems unlikely…

Maybe threw caution and microdosing to the wind in the lead up to the Olympics and went full Leroy Jenkins. Again, not sure what is so complicated. She did not run 3:55 or 3:54. She ran 3:50. Trust me, she sure is doing something. And so long as she does not test positive she wins and gets the windfall.

Its possible that a big improvement could be made by an athlete who has plateaued clean at a world class level then microdoses for a few weeks.

In last week I spoke to 2 coaches of elite pro runners and both mentioned in general (I emphasis that) how if you have a long haul flight you can set up a c 36 to 48 hour "window " for EPO. You have your normal 6am whereabouts window at home then you take your dose and then correctly and professionally change your whereabouts to build in the long haul for door to door , give your next whereabouts address and a later time and thus you can come out clean at the other end if synched. One coach mentioned this because he'd noticed several targeted OOCs being done at airports over the years.

But there were plenty of others like it. In that race there were 10 personal bests, 4 National Records, 2 Area Records, and a World Record. 12 of 13 broke 4. KEN Ejore (28) took a second and a half from her PB earlier this year - (and 5 secs from her time last year). Same thing happened with FRA Guillemot (25) - 5 seconds from her best last year and 4 sec from her PB earlier this year. There's also GBR Georgia Bell (30) went from 4:12 last year to 3:56 (16 seconds! with a 4 sec PB from earlier this year). ETH Getachew (22) set a 6 second PB to get 3:58.98. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong since it was a cursory search).

Yeah, there was probably some supernatural new PED fairy dust that allowed runners from disparate places to inexplicably set huge PRs at the same time. Imho, it was just a magical day.