Official Russia vs Ukraine War Thread

I think the whole concept of subjugating and converting nations over to "our thinking", way of rulership or simply putting our form of government in place by force needs to be completely put to rest. It looks like such a great plan on paper. But the devil is always in the details.

But if history is any guide, nations will never learn this lesson.

Putin can't even send his best propogandists anymore. Now he's sending his dimwitted, soviet-era model into battle.

poll.qu.edu

Vast Majority Of Americans Say Ban Russian Oil, Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds; Nearly 8 In 10 Support U.S. Military Response If Putin Attacks A NATO Country | Quinnipiac University Poll

"Americans are ready to put a chokehold on Russia's key financial lifeblood, oil, no matter what the consequences are at the pump," said Quinnipiac University Polling Analyst Tim Malloy.

Link:poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=383...

Let's not forget that in the safety of their own homes 52% of Democrats admitted they would run away if the US was invaded.

Once the shooting started the bulk of the remaining 48% would clear out immediately.

The people cheerleading the loudest for the war are the ones who admit that they wouldn't fight.

Alternatively, one can make the argument that massive military spending, something the US does and Russia does not, actually produces a true modern army. The gap between American and Russian militaries is larger than the gap between Russian and Ukrainian.

Hypothetical: Political ramifications aside, would the US be able to invade Ukraine more successfully than Russia has?

dude trust me, you don't want to get into a exchange of 'this poll says the other party is crazy' posts. you will not win that one.

I'm not going to say that you're a complete idiot, but you sure are wrong a lot.

Source

Russia does spend a lot on the military...not sure how to describe it, but it;s a lot.

the US would certainly do much better in ukraine, but still would take high losses. We would not run out of food and fuel, and we'd have proper winter gear. But there's only so much you can do againsgt a motivated foe.

Global military spending:

The United States ($778 billion)
China ($252 billion [estimated])
India ($72.9 billion)
Russia ($61.7 billion)
United Kingdom ($59.2 billion)
Saudi Arabia ($57.5 billion [estimated])
Germany ($52.8 billion)
France ($52.7 billion)
Japan ($49.1 billion)
South Korea ($45.7 billion)

Dumb (really) comparison because the technology differences alone.

Now if you said Ho Chi Minh... but Zelenskyyyyy and his fanboys won't use that example, which is actually very persuasive re: Ukes battle.

What this really shows is how insignificant Russia's economy is on the global stage and how absolutely unsustainable it will be for Russia to continue spending less than 10% of what the US does as the Russian economy contracts by 20% or more this year.

More importantly it shows that a modern military can not simply be bought, but requires extensive training at integrated warfare to be effective.

Key word being "significant". CNN did an entire story about 3 russian vehicles being forced to leave a town the other day and called it a "liberation"...

washingtonpost.com

In Ukrainian town, reality doesn’t match government boasts of victory over Russian forces

A visit to Makariv finds Russians still shelling and killing, despite government claims that Ukrainian forces had retaken the town.

Link:www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/2...

Even in Makariv it's pure propaganda and you buy into it 100% because you're so smart.

Now you can tell me the Washington Post is just a "Putin loving" paper.

Meanwhile, back in reality what it actually shows is that a modern military can have a very hard time with completely untrained people who have modern fire and forget weapons which can take down multi-million dollar tanks and aircraft.

Russia is the 11th largest economy in the world. Or was a month ago. Calling their economy "insignificant" is absurd.

The Russian economy was less than 3% of the global economy last year. Next year it will be even less. If it ceased to exist entirely (which seems likely) nobody would miss it. The Russian stock market was closed for a month and the S&P 500 went up 5% in that time. Russia was a second-tier afterthought on the world stage before they invaded The Ukraine and are headed towards third-world nation status (unless China just buys the whole damn country for fen on the ruble).

It is also always a question: how do you use what you've got?

Universally, military analysts agree that Russia has made multiple tactical blunders in prosecuting this war. Broadly, they spread forces too thinly, committing themselves blithely to too many military objectives spread around the entire eastern perimeter of Ukraine without a clear, over-arching military strategy.

More specifically and perhaps even more damningly, these analysts point out that modern warfare requires real-time coordination and effective communications between multiple attacking elements in order to focus and leverage force. Russian military command has not consistently attained that level of coordination and communication on the battlefield, leaving elements exposed and under-supported. Failures in both strategy and execution.

Russia could have invaded Ukraine much more effectively than it did.

Hubris.

They're #11 in the world... China and the US are 40% of the world economy. By your logic every other country on earth can cease to exist and no one will miss them. The 3rd largest economy in the word is Japan at 5%. #4 is Germany at 4%. You're insane.

I think it was more stupidity than hubris. They seem to have literally thought the Ukraine wouldn't fight back.

It's hard to know what's actually happening but there are countless videos on Twitter of tanks driving into towns completely unsupported by infantry and sometimes even unsupported by other tanks.

The level of incompetence on display is truly amazing.

Hopefully, it's giving China some second thoughts about the capabilities of their military.

well ok yeah but RU's main mistake was intelligence....not tactics. RU thought ukraine would not fight. So they thought a blitzkrieg would be effective.

Had they known UKR would fight back...they would have had better tactics. Point being, intelligence was the key fail factor here.

heh Adult and I just agreed.

E Pluribus Unum!

I'm sure somebody will miss them. The global economy on the other hand has already said it doesn't give two sh*ts about Russia being reduced to the next North Korea. Their credit rating is currently "junk". In case you're unaware, Germany is part of the EU, which should be considered as a whole and has a combined GDP of around $13T (similar to China). Russia has... Belarus.

I'm sorry you're only now coming to the realization that Russia is a failed experiment in kleptocracy and hasn't mattered on the world stage in the last 20 years. They'll be speaking Mandarin in Moscow before Russia achieves any of their objectives in The Ukraine.

It is a stalemate at this point. Russia cannot occupy the country effectively and Ukraine cannot forcibly eject all Russian troops. Ukraine is winning the propaganda war, Russia is watching its economy collapse into nothing, and its nuclear saber rattling is the only thing keeping the entire world from pointing and laughing at it.

Russia failed Combat Logistics 101. Russia failed to secure air superiority. Russia failed to establish secure battlefield communications by destroying the networks required to run it. Russia went in with poorly trained, horribly motivated, and largely incompetent troops. Their antique gear was poorly maintained and not battle ready. Scared conscripts have abandoned useful gear that could be easily used against them by Ukrainian forces well versed in using it since it matches their own. This lack of discipline may also have allowed NATO to come into possession of Russia's most advanced ground based electronic warfare technology, a development that would set Russian air defenses back a full decade or more. Putin keeps sending top commanders into the theater only to have them come back in body bags thanks to snipers receiving great intel from unsecure communications. Russia's navy is even taking losses!

Russia can still do a lot of damage and inflict a great deal of pain, but they have proven themselves to be a paper bear. Decades of kleptocracy have stripped the Russian military of any real effectiveness and the threat of WMD is the only thing that keeps NATO from completely destroying them. With Ukraine getting better weapons and motivation daily, this will not end well for Mother Russia. They best get to the bargaining table.