Is The RunningLane Course 5K? Or Is It Short?

Yeah, courses that someone measured with a wheel, so everyone has a rough idea of how long it will take.

coachy wrote:

D.Katz wrote:

Down the middle of the course = 5000 meters +

I know it's stupid, especially on a course this wide but isn't this the current standard of measurement for XC courses? If there even is a standard.

Coachy!

For someone who says they have certified road course and was so sure that Running Lane was measured properly and is legit, you sure ask some bad questions.

That basic process was changed years ago at the NFHS level! Yet, how many courses changed to deal with this? If CC records mattered, and were actually kept by someone, somewhere, all new records should exist starting the year the new measuring rule went into effect. But, with no one asking about how close to the inside boundaries the course should be measured, there is absolutely no consistency in course lengths in this country, which is why CC records are silly!

Most state associations have rules regarding course length. The courses can't be nonstandardized lengths.

" Prior to the fifth Monday of the competition season (September 17), meet managers have the option of running a 4000 meter course for competitors below the varsity level as long as all varsity and sub-varsity races run to a common finish line. Beginning the fifth Monday of the competition season (September 17), all competitors must run 5000 meters."

This one is interesting.

"The maximum length of a course is 5000 meters for boys and girls. (Rule 8-1-1)

b. Measuring wheels on visiting courses must be used for coaching purposes only. If used to question or challenge the length of the course the coach shall be charged with “Unsportsmanlike Conduct.”

coachy wrote:

steve unbanned wrote:

If there is no standard method to measure, then there cannot be records.

I am not sure why anyone does this. We don't really have a choice. Although it's not ratified by some governing body its literally on every running website that it's a record.

What do you mean "we don't have any choice"? What would be so hard about verifying the length?

Milesplit maintains them. We have run courses that were mismeasured or diverted due to conditions and Milesplit entered them as 2.x miles and they don't show up in the 5k database.

Nike is knocking wrote:

Most state associations have rules regarding course length. The courses can't be nonstandardized lengths.

" Prior to the fifth Monday of the competition season (September 17), meet managers have the option of running a 4000 meter course for competitors below the varsity level as long as all varsity and sub-varsity races run to a common finish line. Beginning the fifth Monday of the competition season (September 17), all competitors must run 5000 meters."

This one is interesting.

"The maximum length of a course is 5000 meters for boys and girls. (Rule 8-1-1)

b. Measuring wheels on visiting courses must be used for coaching purposes only. If used to question or challenge the length of the course the coach shall be charged with “Unsportsmanlike Conduct.”

No, the course can be any length you want, but shouldn't exceed 5000m, but if there is no process in place on how to actually measure the course none of this matters.

Are you a Wisconsinite? b) looks like an idiotic Wisconsin rule! Or, did all states adopt that silly language?

Nike is knocking wrote:

Milesplit maintains them. We have run courses that were mismeasured or diverted due to conditions and Milesplit entered them as 2.x miles and they don't show up in the 5k database.

The site that was pushing the Running Lane event and one that is all about fast times with no course length verification? Anything to make a buck I suppose!

What do you mean no? Those rules are posted from 2 different state associations. One has a max length and the other has a specified length of 5000 meters. The one with the max, does not allow the questioning of the course length.

Nike is knocking wrote:

Most state associations have rules regarding course length. The courses can't be nonstandardized lengths.

" Prior to the fifth Monday of the competition season (September 17), meet managers have the option of running a 4000 meter course for competitors below the varsity level as long as all varsity and sub-varsity races run to a common finish line. Beginning the fifth Monday of the competition season (September 17), all competitors must run 5000 meters."

This one is interesting.

"The maximum length of a course is 5000 meters for boys and girls. (Rule 8-1-1)

b. Measuring wheels on visiting courses must be used for coaching purposes only. If used to question or challenge the length of the course the coach shall be charged with “Unsportsmanlike Conduct.”

That is just so that the courses are roughly the same length, not exactly. So coaches and runners know generally what they are training towards. If there are no actual instructions for measurement concerning distance from edge etc, then it is clear they don't mean to have everything standardized or exact.

The NFL and NBA and MLB have one goal, to maximize profit. I guess I will never pay any attention to any of their records again.

zzzz wrote:

steve unbanned wrote:

Apparently in Europe, they don't even try to make xc courses a standard length. They just make a good course that fits in the space they have. And they keep records of how came 1st 2nd etc.

Why keep a 'record' if you cannot even say how far they ran, never mind about mud/turns/hills/etc

That's the case for most high school cross country races in the US isn't it? I never ran on a 5K course in high school cross country ('80s for me). 2.86 miles and 2.95 miles (Crystal Springs) were the distances for the courses I ran the most. Looking at athletic.net for my old high school, it looks like most of their current meets are still non-standardized distances.

I have never seen a high school results page that didn't have overall times for every competitor. It would be great if the wheeled distance was listed on the results pages. I think things have gotten better now that most states have the same distances for guys and girls(~5k). Course measurement errors seemed more common when girls were doing 4k and the meet managers wanted the same start lines and same finish lines. However, I still see plenty of course that little time was put into the measurement.

Nike is knocking wrote:

The NFL and NBA and MLB have one goal, to maximize profit. I guess I will never pay any attention to any of their records again.

Better late than never. In sports like baseball with the steroid era you can't really compare things anyway!

steve unbanned wrote:

Running websites report it as a record, to generate clicks and arguments from suckers like us. I will admit that this discussion is interesting, and a legit topic. But if other courses turn out to be longer or different because they were setup with a different measurement method, with lrc have new headline that course was short?

Which websites have made a big deal or even had a discussion about the Running Lane Meet? I would love to read the comments if they are open.

Steel Tapeless wrote:

coachy wrote:

I know it's stupid, especially on a course this wide but isn't this the current standard of measurement for XC courses? If there even is a standard.

Coachy!

For someone who says they have certified road course and was so sure that Running Lane was measured properly and is legit, you sure ask some bad questions.

That basic process was changed years ago at the NFHS level! Yet, how many courses changed to deal with this? If CC records mattered, and were actually kept by someone, somewhere, all new records should exist starting the year the new measuring rule went into effect. But, with no one asking about how close to the inside boundaries the course should be measured, there is absolutely no consistency in course lengths in this country, which is why CC records are silly!

I know you have become the troll of this thread just trying to go at people but once again I will repeat... Measuring road courses and XC course are NOT the same thing. I don't measure XC courses because I have never really cared if it is down to the meter.

I went out to Track and Field News - Lots of discussion and great coverage of the All Time National Record CC Run!

https://trackandfieldnews.com/

coachy-

You need to look in the mirror. You have been after anyone and everyone who just wants verification on the course length. Most of the posters who have questioned the validity of Running Lane being a true 5k have also given plenty of kudos to the top runners and the organizer of the meet. It's an awesome course, for sure!

Several people, including a person who makes a living going around the WORLD laying out, measuring, and certifying courses shared his finding and they agree more with the skeptics than your opinion. Yet, he could be wrong and you could be right, but we will never know unless a proper course measurement occurs. Why is that so hard to swallow?

Newspapers all over the nation are reporting record times.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/chatards-lily-cridge-sets-state-record-runs-to-second-in-national-meet/ar-AARt7KR

https://www.nj.com/highschoolsports/2021/12/union-catholic-breaks-state-an-us-marks-at-national-team-meet-in-alabama.html

https://www.abqjournal.com/2451609/prep-cross-country-kuykendalls-time-at-elite-meet-thought-to-be-fastest-by-nm-runner.html

https://www.vieravoice.com/viera-sports-blog/viera-s-toppi-adds-to-legacy-breaks-state-cross-country-record/article_e0ff575c-5569-11ec-a9a4-d73887a5d711.html

Nike is knocking wrote:

What do you mean no? Those rules are posted from 2 different state associations. One has a max length and the other has a specified length of 5000 meters. The one with the max, does not allow the questioning of the course length.

You stated : "The courses can't be nonstandardized lengths".

One site says either 4000 or 5000, the other says: The maximum length of a

course is 5000 meters for boys and girls.

No where does it say " The courses can't be nonstandardized lengths". 2500, 3400, 4128, or 4850 are all less than 5000 and there is no rule against it from the language you shared. Someone asked if the second language was from Wisconsin? Or, now common in the NFHS rules book?