Full Shelby Houlihan Report is Out from CAS

Good laugh wrote:

The defenses for Houlihan fail bc they could apply to anyone. I ate bacon today. It is possible that the bacon contained boar meat-even though the bacon isn’t supposed to and even though the meat for the bacon came from a plant that doesn’t slaughter boars. It is possible that my morning coffee contained tainted boar blood.

I understand that logic. But I just want to be clear. So that means in your mind that Ajee and Jarrion cheated as well, right?

There's clearly no proof these people ate contaminated beef. But it's possible and they were let off. We need to be consistent.

The news doesn't add to what we already knew to be true, but my takeaway from this overlong thread is how ridiculous it is that so many of you fell for the obvious trolling from sanootage. Letting an anonymous troll bait you like that makes me question the intelligence of a lot of people on these forums.

rojo wrote:

Good laugh wrote:

The defenses for Houlihan fail bc they could apply to anyone. I ate bacon today. It is possible that the bacon contained boar meat-even though the bacon isn’t supposed to and even though the meat for the bacon came from a plant that doesn’t slaughter boars. It is possible that my morning coffee contained tainted boar blood.

I understand that logic. But I just want to be clear. So that means in your mind that Ajee and Jarrion cheated as well, right?

There's clearly no proof these people ate contaminated beef. But it's possible and they were let off. We need to be consistent.

No. We do not consistently need to state "you can ingest WHATEVER and you get let off."

The food consumed, what was allegedly in the food consumed, more importantly what is ALMOST NEVER in the food consumed, and the levels were all taken into consideration in all of these cases. Drug cheats out.

High hopes wrote:

It would be funny if I didn't think Rojo is right now trying to amplify this. For better or worse, the Brojo's are influential in the running world and what they choose to amplify matters. Here, Rojo has found something that sounds sciencey and fits with his priors, but which he doesn't fully understand himself, so he's buying it without knowing anything at all about the credentials of the person who wrote it. This is how conspiracy theories take hold

Just to be clear. YOU want me to accept the testimony of the lead investigator in this case - a known perjurer? Ayotte?

Yes I don't understand the science and that's why I'm trying to learn about it. I doubt everyone who is saying "She's guilty 100% or innocent" knows it either. Unlike them, I'm trying to learn it.

I already knew a bunch of unlikely events had to occur for her to be innocent. It may be 1 in over a million, but when I know the lead expert on the case has perjured herself in another case and didn't run a test that the new documents require, it seems to me she should be set free regardless unless someone can tell me why the new test wasn't run.

Set. wrote:

Rojo - wearing the latest *legal* tech is not cutting corners! Cutting corners is cheating.

This is incredible. Someone is actually found doping and your (completely pointless) crusade about the shoes somehow makes its way into it. Do you think you will change the shoe rules? If not then just accept it. !

I'm a natural skeptic. To be honest, when Ajee and Jarrion got off, I was skeptical of that. It' spossible they ate tainted beef but we dont' know it.

Do I think it's much more likely that are dopers than someoen who didn't test positive. Absolutely. Same thing with Houlihan. But does that mean they did it? Of course not.

My whole problem with the Wilson / Lawson cases was from a logical one. If they were going to get off, why wouldn't we bet letting everyone off who tests positive at a low level. And that seems to be the case here (except she wasnt' let off).

Travis Tygart of USADA realized this. He, like me, can logically run this out and realize it's a real problem.

rojo wrote:

Good laugh wrote:

The defenses for Houlihan fail bc they could apply to anyone. I ate bacon today. It is possible that the bacon contained boar meat-even though the bacon isn’t supposed to and even though the meat for the bacon came from a plant that doesn’t slaughter boars. It is possible that my morning coffee contained tainted boar blood.

I understand that logic. But I just want to be clear. So that means in your mind that Ajee and Jarrion cheated as well, right?

There's clearly no proof these people ate contaminated beef. But it's possible and they were let off. We need to be consistent.

The drug they tested for is known to exist in the US food supply. The drug that Shelby tested for has almost zero chance of being found in the US food supply.

Set. wrote:

When you go on about the shoes, you're ranting against literally everyone, because everyone is wearing them. Seriously, it's damaging the sport, it was old 2 years ago - give it up!

I ranted about a select few running in camouflaged shoes at the 2016 Olympics. Now that most companies have them, I'm less outraged.

Now what I rant on is people who act like people are way better than before. They are faster, not necessarily better.

nobody read this wrote:

“We tested all of my vitamins and supplements which all came back negative. Unfortunately, there were a couple that we didn’t have the original batches of because I was notified a month later and those supplements were already consumed,” shared Houlihan.

SH knows exactly how the nandrolone got in her system. It wasn’t from a food truck.

I agree with this line of thinking. I think it's probably to have come from a contaminated supplement than the beef.

To counter the argument of "only an idiot would dope with oral nandrolene" I've heard that most often another drug or supplement is tainted with nandrolone. I need to call Floyd Landis. Apprarently, he has strong feelings on this.

I've never said shes' dirty or innocent. What I've consistently said is it almost doesn't matter to me. I want a system that I can trust.

jahangir khan wrote:

exactly this going on around a favoured athlete that half this board is giddy for and wants to believe is clean. So a huge raft of misinformation, which avoids the simple fact--she was popped. Could have been anyone, just so happens it was a suspiciously improved athlete

Again, why wasn't there this outrage with Ajee Wilson then? She was popped. No one paid attention or got made when she got off.

You would have to believe Centro is insane to buy into your proposed motive.

rojo wrote:

Good laugh wrote:

The defenses for Houlihan fail bc they could apply to anyone. I ate bacon today. It is possible that the bacon contained boar meat-even though the bacon isn’t supposed to and even though the meat for the bacon came from a plant that doesn’t slaughter boars. It is possible that my morning coffee contained tainted boar blood.

I understand that logic. But I just want to be clear. So that means in your mind that Ajee and Jarrion cheated as well, right?

There's clearly no proof these people ate contaminated beef. But it's possible and they were let off. We need to be consistent.

Yes, they were probably cheating as well. This isn't hard if you have no dog in the fight.

Trevor Graham turned in a vial of the clear that would utterly destroy his own staple of athletes. Vengence is ugly.

Again, probably not even 0.01% likely in this case with Houlihan, but, like the beef story, it's plausible. And, unlike the beef story, very implausible.

disgusted wrote:

It looks like the letsrun policy is:

"We are against doping... unless it concerns someone we like"

Embarrassing and really sad.

I'm against doping.

I'm still waiting for a single person to address the main point I raised earlier. Again, I'm wanting to learn. I haven't read the whole thing.

Please answer this. Why wasn't the pharmacokinetics study done? And can it still be done? It just seems natural to me that the lab is worried about it going against their narrative.

1) The current WADA rules specifically state that when pork is cited that a pharmacokinetics study must be done to see if the nandrolone is endogenous or exogenous., not the GC/C/IRMS Test which has a 40% fale positive rate. WADA refused to run the test that is in their current rules (but was't in effect at the time). THis is absurd to me. This is like not running a DNA test on semen colleciton of a guy convicted of rape in 1970 simply because the tests weren't required in 1970.

Not a single person has come up with a factual reply to why my reasons for thinking she maybe should be cleared is wrong. The main point is above.

Whataboutism time i see

Rojo--

My understanding is that Jarrion and Ajee had realistic levels of the hormone in their system based upon their explanations.

There may be issues with the studies, but the studies about nandrolone in offal showed that even ingesting way more than Shelby possibly could have from some burrito led to levels of nandrolone 2-3x less than what they found in Shelby's test.

So that's the difference. I have no idea if Ajee and Jarrion are clean or if they got away with it but that is the distinction.

rojo wrote:

Again, why wasn't there this outrage with Ajee Wilson then? She was popped. No one paid attention or got made when she got off.

You mean you've forgotten the thread that had "the most Rojoesque thing Rojo has ever posted"?

The first post in that thread seemed pretty outraged to me, even by LRC standards:

"No suspension? Contaminated meat? WTF?? Ridiculous double standards. If this was a Russian they would have had her head on a platter!"

I think there is some important nuance in those cases. Didn’t Ajee actually track down meat that was contaminated? And weren’t her positive levels substantially lower than Shelby’s?

That said, yeah, I think they cheated, too.

Suspicious Jerry wrote:

I think there is some important nuance in those cases. Didn’t Ajee actually track down meat that was contaminated? And weren’t her positive levels substantially lower than Shelby’s?

That said, yeah, I think they cheated, too.

Yes, both of these things are true.

Not every "contaminated meat" defenses are created equal.

The only tainted supplement theory that makes sense, is if she was using a different banned substance and it was cross contaminated with nandrolone. Otherwise, She’d be able find the culprit supplement. However, seems to me that doping is sophisticated, and maybe she is on a hybrid substance that included nandrolone. Who’s to say.

Honestly, if she were innocent she’d release her biological passport. She released tons of self serving data, e.g. hair sample test and polygraph. If it’s not out there, it’s bc it doesn’t look good for her.