Lawyers of LetsRun, anyone want to sue Skyhorse and Andrew Hutchinson for statutory damages?

DumboBK wrote:

So, for the first time ever, a cool, accurate, and interesting coffee table book that might appeal and legitimize our most beloved sport to the masses is published by some JV Pub House and all LensRun wants to do is get litigious and call plagiarism? Honestly who the hell cares? I think it would be fantastic to be able to buy a coffee table book highlighting the best sport in the entire world and proudly showcase it on my coffee table. Guys does it really matter that much to all of a sudden lawyer up as the sport we all love needs more of this.

Yes, it matters.

Kudos to LR and Jonathan Gault for jumping down hard on this.

Hutchinson's actions and words make me think that this is a generational issue. Younger people think that "research" consists of doing a quick Google search and then copying an pasting. That is somehow "work." Then you publish it and collect royalties.

Shoot me now.

FWIW, the late Merrell Noden (4:12 HS miler, I believe) was a friend of mine, a running buddy, a great writer and great guy. I can say for certain that he would be applauding LR and Gault for taking this stand.

Avocado's Number wrote:When I'm asked to name my favorite movies about lawyers, "My Cousin Vinny" is always my first pick.

Da two yutes!

Movie lover wrote:

Avocado's Number wrote:When I'm asked to name my favorite movies about lawyers, "My Cousin Vinny" is always my first pick.

Da two yutes!

I once had a legal case against the Ute Mountain Ute tribe, whose members are called Utes. You can appreciate how tempting it was to describe a couple of individuals in the case as the two Utes.

Avocado's Number wrote:

Movie lover wrote:

Da two yutes!

I once had a legal case against the Ute Mountain Ute tribe, whose members are called Utes. You can appreciate how tempting it was to describe a couple of individuals in the case as the two Utes.

Against the Ute Mountain Tribes? Haven't you utes oppressed them enough?

Blowing Rock Master wrote:

Teach me wrote:

Where do you find that information?

It's under Product Details. Now at #78.

Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #120,685 in Books (See Top 100 in Books)

#78 in Track & Field Sports

#87 in Research Reference Books

#212 in Sports History

Looks like the Gault bump is over.

#191 in Track & Field Sports

#288 in Research Reference Books

#762 in Sports History

Got my book last week. Better than I thought it would be, but cudda used a few more pictures. Hutchinson did, however, acknowledge Jeff Johnson's cover photo.

Gault is the best thing to happen to Letsrun since Weldon's press 800 a few years ago. He's right to call out Hutchinson.

malmo wrote:

Avocado's Number wrote:

I once had a legal case against the Ute Mountain Ute tribe, whose members are called Utes. You can appreciate how tempting it was to describe a couple of individuals in the case as the two Utes.

Against the Ute Mountain Tribes? Haven't you utes oppressed them enough?

The tables are turned when you're fighting about matters on tribal land. If you're an outsider representing a couple of other outsiders under the jurisdiction of the Tribe, you're even worse off than a New Yorker representing two New York yutes under the jurisdiction of Alabama. Especially if you don't have an expert witness who can identify tire tracks made by a car with independent rear suspension and positraction.

Skyhorse published the third edition of my Boston Marathon history in 2017. I know they did not have resources to fact check all 800 pages. I submitted the first edition in 1995 to Human Kinetics with a manuscript fully footnoted in Chicago Manual style at an academic level so it looked like a PhD thesis. HK decided readers did not want to be bothered by the footnotes so I had to remove all that work and change it to chapter end notes and then to a bibliography. Often I attributed lines and quotations to specific reporters, but often the same story appeared in several newspapers in slightly different form so I reported some synthesis of what they all had written. The writer of non-fiction must strike a balance between leaving a trail of research for some to follow and killing the narrative with tedious documentation. So certainly attribute a paragraph, and even a sentence, but anything short of that is free. For example on page 537 I describe winner and Olympic gold medalist Gelindo Bordin with a short beard giving his "strong featured face a biblical force." I stole the word "biblical" from my friend Toni Reavis who had described Bordin's face as biblical. Had I attributed that one word, the attribution would have wrecked the sentence.

The old adage goes, "Bad writers plagiarize, good writers steal." Thanks, Toni.

Tom

Derderian wrote:

For example on page 537 I describe winner and Olympic gold medalist Gelindo Bordin with a short beard giving his "strong featured face a biblical force." I stole the word "biblical" from my friend Toni Reavis who had described Bordin's face as biblical. Had I attributed that one word, the attribution would have wrecked the sentence.

The old adage goes, "Bad writers plagiarize, good writers steal." Thanks, Toni.

Tom

That's good. (Although I would guess that it's probably more like a face that's been used by Italian painters and film directors to depict an assortment of biblical characters, including at least half of Jesus's disciples.)

Avocado's Number wrote:

When I'm asked to name my favorite movies about lawyers, "My Cousin Vinny" is always my first pick.

A gift for you. Enjoy.

malmo wrote:

Avocado's Number wrote:

When I'm asked to name my favorite movies about lawyers, "My Cousin Vinny" is always my first pick.

A gift for you. Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1I7QBCHqng

Thank you! So much good (and instructive) stuff in that movie about real lawyering.

The lawyer reviewing the film's legal accuracy got a few things wrong himself. For example, he criticized the prosecution's introduction of expert witness testimony for failing to lay the foundation for its admissibility under Rule 702 and the Daubert standard (at 20:06 of the video). The Daubert standard, however, was not adopted and articulated by the U.S. Supreme Court until 1993, and was not adopted for Alabama state courts until 2011. "My Cousin Vinny," however, was released in 1992, when Alabama courts were still applying Daubert's predecessor, the Frye standard. [In any event, in a clip that the lawyer omitted, the judge in the film (Fred Gwynne, in his final performance) praised Vinny's objection to the testimony, but overruled it anyway and allowed the expert to testify.]

Such a joy to revisit that movie.

Jonathan, this is a great job of investigating. As a running author myself (The Competitive Edge: Mental Preparation for Distance Running), I really appreciate your work on this. Hutchinson was being flat-out unethical. Our words are the result of our hard work—they should not be stolen for someone else's gain.

relliott wrote:

Jonathan, this is a great job of investigating. As a running author myself (The Competitive Edge: Mental Preparation for Distance Running), I really appreciate your work on this. Hutchinson was being flat-out unethical. Our words are the result of our hard work—they should not be stolen for someone else's gain.

Ironic, since:

1) gault and LRC are sometimes accused of plagiarism

2) his attention definitely sold more copies. Even Malmo bought one.

Thank him when they sue, maybe? That would have more teeth.