Breaking: An Absolute Travesty! USATF WILL NOT honor top 3 finish at US Olympic Trials unless you have the standard!!!

^^By the way, it's "whose fault?"

Have you read anything on the site in this week? The whole pint of making the standards tougher is so they can emphasize the world rank. They easily could have just gone down a descending order list but they don't want to do that - they want to market their world ranking.

Here is the official IAAF article on the matter:

The head PR person of the IAAF called me from MONACO this week when half the distance running world was upset about the tougher times as she was concerned fans were falsely worried about the changes. People like Chris Derrick - number 300 or 400 in the marathon - would still get in on the rankings and she thanked us for pointing that out. She wanted very much for people to understand that even if they don't hit the standard, they'd still get in most likely.

The world rankings are the whole reason why we didn't get too upset about stupid standards like 27:28. While I"d much prefer them just giving us a waiiver for top 3 at the Trials go, I actually thought a world rank might be ok for the US as that way if you run 3:35.2 you still go versus 334.8 (but I was concerned someone coming back from injury or a new college star wouldn't make it).

On our podcast, we just assumed USATF had to honor the rankings even though in the past, they didn't go down their descending order list. But guess what - USATF screws up again.

Great post.

Another great post.

Much more difficult. Paula Radcliffe said it best - I thought it was a tweet. The IAAF basically wants people to qualify by ranking. The standard is really only there as insurance for super studs. Like if you are out with pregnancy or stress fracture, you can get in with one meet.

But the thing that really gets me is the IAAF is trying to emphasize the rankings and what does USATF do? The exact opposite. Come on bureaucrats, get on the same page.

Does this mean Galen Rupp is running the Olympic trials solo or do the other slow runners get to run too?

Wouldn't that be a big waste of money to shut all those streets down just have one guy run a marathon ?

c7runner7 wrote:

c7runner7 wrote:

I thought you said USATF was saying you had to hit the TIME standard. I thought that was the whole point of this uproar.

Nvm, I got it. A top 10 WMM equals the time standard. But rankings (that are based on finishes at big races such as WMMs) don’t matter. Doesn’t really make a ton of sense but I understand the process now.

Explain further?

c7runner7 wrote:

c7runner7 wrote:

I thought you said USATF was saying you had to hit the TIME standard. I thought that was the whole point of this uproar.

Nvm, I got it. A top 10 WMM equals the time standard. But rankings (that are based on finishes at big races such as WMMs) don’t matter. Doesn’t really make a ton of sense but I understand the process now.

I get it now too. Being top 10 in Boston and NYC seems actually easier than Top 5 in a smaller Gold level race like Ottawa or in the hinterland in China or Eastern Europe because those seem dominated by fast Ethiopians and Kenyans.

So while the standard can be achieved if you're going to be in the hunt at trials anyway, It really does take away from the mystique and drama and buildup of the trials. It was like the embodiment of the American dream as written in the article. Now we will be like everyone else--those who are expected to go will go, with the established credentials. They've already done the work, so maybe it's more merit based, even, and saves the heartbreak of someone like Molly Ludlow.

But the whole point of sport is living up to that moment, that time and place. Otherwise everything could be decided by committee. Just give Kipchoge a gold medal then.

If I was a top marathoner, this is yet another reason to not care about the OLYs. Why even bother wasting one of my limited good marathons on this farcical political circus.

rojo wrote:

Flagons ff wrote:

I think focusing so much on Rupp or Chelimo not making it under the new rules really overlooks the fact that...they ran under the old rules!

.

I guess you are not aware that Chelimo is pissed about the developments.

That isn't relevant to my point.

I hope this isn’t true, and there is a very specific parsing of language that lets me hold out a sliver of hope that it isn’t. In Susan Hazard’s email (quoted in this thread’s OP as well as in your article on the topic), she uses the term “qualifying standard.” In your interview with the IAAF, the IAAF, they use the terms “entry standard” and “ranking” to describe the two ways an athlete can be qualified to be selected, and use the terms “athletes who have qualified” and “qualified athletes” to describe the group that encompasses all athletes who have qualified by either method.

So, if USATF has adopted the language of the IAAF, that Susan Hazzard said “the three highest-placing finishers at the 2020 US Olympic Trials, and who have the 2020 Olympic Games qualifying standard” will be selected, rather than “the three highest-placing finishers. . . who have the entry standard” will be selected could mean that USATF will select athletes who are qualified be either method.

This is, I think, why so many people are asking you whether you’re sure. Your take may be right, but until this ambiguity is cleared up that’s not a certainty. Until then, criticisms of Susan Hazzard for her imprecise use of language are misplaced, as it would be your own cavalier interpretation that resulted in this confusion.

Of course, there are plenty of things that USATF can be criticized for; but until we’re sure (to paraphrase the great Inigo Montoya) that these words mean what we think they mean, let’s keep this one off the list. And, if it is confirmed, I’ll be right there with the torch and pitchfork mob, because this decision would be ridiculous.

This is worse than genocide.

Bump!

- Lickety is OPEN to this change simply because I'm about done w/US middle & long-distance Championship/OT Races where ignorant US athletes w/o qualifying time don't put it "on-the-line" at these events. Instead, they play BS "sit & kick" games which I find ZERO exciting & no DARN well that it doesn't reflect the "best efforts." I want athletes at these events running as fast as possible w/o rabbits. Those that made the team w/o Qualifiers then go to Europe & chase standards for the summer & simply BURN-OUT trying to chase the qualifier .... w/nothing left at the Olympics.

- Lickety also likes this rule because REAL Distance Runners now recognize that World XC is a significant event for their careers as far as making a IAAF final .... versus atypical behavior like "Paul Chelimo & his Half-Marathon" vs representing our great nation later this month.

- Furthermore, Lickety likes that this reduces the current WCAP movement where the MAJORITY of the team enlists under false pretenses (MAVNI Program) to gain citizenship, never really serve as real Soldiers, subsidized by the US taxpayer, and take the spots of REAL Americans. Now, they have incentive to return to the Rift Valley with a Western education & not only contribute towards their society, but represent their native country as well.

what am I missing here??? wrote:

I've always thought that in order to go to the Olympics, one must meet the Olympic time standard and place top three in your running event. How are the new rules any different? Other than the time standards are more difficult?

I thought the same. Isn't that what got Ritz into the Olympics back in 2004?

rojo wrote:

Olympic silver medallist Paul Chelimo is the #1 example of what we are talking about. His world ranking would have gotten him in 2016 but USATF wouldn't have sent him and we'd have lost out on a silver medal.

Chelimo ran 13:21 in May 2016. The standard was 13:25. You must be asking hypothetically what if he had to run the 2020 standard of 13:13?

Well, right, he wouldn't have done anything different like run lots of time trials to make sure he hit that tougher standard. And it's clueless not to expect a 13:21 guy to lop 18 seconds of his PB in a championship final.

What a crime it would have been to send guys like Mead, True and Rupp who all qualified at 13:08 or better, and leave home the 13:21 guy who beat them in one 13:35 race. Because of world ranking, maybe? How? That one race was the only big win he ever had to that point.

rojo wrote:

Talk about the biggest Friday evening news dump ever.

We have some huge breaking news to report. In my mind this is the most depressing development for US distance fans since we started the website.

http://www.letsrun.com/splash-page/dark-day-olympic-trials/

and

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2019/03/our-worst-fears-realized-usatf-will-not-honor-top-three-finish-at-the-us-olympic-trials-unless-you-have-the-standard/

This is one of the darkest days in history for US distance fans. We emailed USATF to make sure they would be honoring the IAAF world rankings so those top 3 at the Olympic Trials could go to the Olympics – they told us they would not. That means Olympic silver medallist Paul Chelimo wouldn’t have made the 2016 team, nor would Jared Ward and five others including Bernard Lagat who won the most thrilling race was the Trials. Some US Olympic Trials races may now be totally meaningless.

What’s missing is that they won’t let athletes chase the standard after the trials. I don’t think your write up communicates that.

Having the standard has been the rule for several decades (ex. Rod DeHaven only marathon qualifier). So don’t make it out like the US could just send the top 3 regardless of time before this point.

If we don’t have 5-8 guys that can 13:13 in this country that should be the concern. Not the standard. We have 20+ college kids breaking 4:00 but we don’t a mass of guys that can run 4:15 pace for 5k??

The guys in these positions will hit the standards. I think you aren’t giving them enough credit. They now know what they need to do and theyll have the marks going in. Whether that is through gold label races or actually running 2:11.

I think the athletes aren’t nearly as concerned as you are. They’re competitive. That’s their job.

Could this lead to some faster domestic races? Maybe more US runners will go after a time in our spring meets here in the US.

Can this be an opportunity to showcase our top runners at the already big meets? Penn, Drake, Texas Relays- with races with loaded fields in front of big crowds and the runners knowing they have nothing to lose going for the standard?

Yeah I’m still a little confused as to the various permutations of this, what does it mean for someone like Brogan Austin?

Tinman was predicting him a sub 2:11 I think at CIM but he was sick before the race and I imagine that held him back slightly even though he got 2:12, he could bust ass at Atlanta but it’s a super tough course.

I suggest that we change the standard for our Olympic trials to match the Olympic standard if what Rojo says is how we are going to select the team. It won’t really effect some of the shorter distances and you still will have rounds, but for these distance events, why make our runners run 2-3 rounds, or race period(if three or less people have the standard).

Allow runners to qualify up until 11:59PM local time the day before the event. Let Nike or Brooks, or whoever rent a local track the days and weeks before the scheduled start at the trials and have their athletes make multiple attempts at the standard. Hire pace setters and the second you are too far off pace to hit the standard, step off the track and get ready to try again in a few hours or the next day.

I love the trials, but under the new process, especially for distance fans, all it is is an event to line USATF’s pocket, because 2 laps into a slow final with only three people who have the standard, we already know who our team is, regardless of place. And that turns the trials into a participation meet.

I’ve wondered before, is there some political rift in USATF between sprinters/jumpers/hurdles and the mid distance/distance crowd? In other public disputes, it seemed like there was a split in leadership and membership. And now with Lanana in an ugly divorce with USATF leadership..,

Just curious...

So funny everyone bitching about raising the standard for US running. The Olympic Trials mentality just perpetuates a culture of mediocrity in our country and that's the reason why our distance running is shot now.

The worst of the worst is Olympic Trials for the marathon, a pathetic manifestation of mediocrity happening every 4 years. Guys that go 2:20 on a downhill course think they're elite athletes, get sponsorship contracts! W in T actual F?!?!?!?!

Don't have the Olympic standard? I guess you're not an elite athlete, go get a haircut and a real job!