Congrats to ALL the Americans who made the Xc team, right Letsrun!!!

The Gallant Pig Man wrote:

rojo wrote:

Again, what's wrong with it? Please tell me.

.

Right? I can't imagine why anyone would think making these distinctions might suggest that you don't quite consider them to be REAL Americans...

Would you consider rojo a REAL Chinese if he got Chinese citizenship?

Okay you are right. Let's just end the USATF running circuit. No more monetary prizes. Now what?

5 year wait!! wrote:

Now before any of you bash me ask yourselves this: How many of the Kenyans would have joined the Army if they were told that although you will become an American citizen, you still have to wait 5 years before you can compete for any prize money being rewarded prize money on the running circuit or to represent the USA in international meets? Be honest with yourselves.

Err....how many poor Kenyans would jump at the chance to become a US citizen, leave the army with qualifications and skills and citizenship, and end up in the USA? Or to take a college offer, run for their new college, get a degree and citizenship and a job? Quite a few, I believe.

This suggests that about 7000 Kenyans per year emigrate to the Unites States. I would be surprised if more than 0.1% (7 new people each year) ever get even a singlr mention on LetsRun, and 0.01% become people you have heard of.

"East African runners are emigrating to many non-African nations. For a variety of reasons. While I have zero problem with this, I do find it a bit concerning when our international championship races become a matter of which nation's Kenyan-born athlete is better"

Exactly how I feel.

Rojo:

I too found the Dunbar tweet, the Derrick-related comments, and the headline off-putting for several reasons:

1. We don't live in a world where everyone reads the Sports Gene and decides -- without any racial, anti-immigrant, etc. bias -- that certain people are genetically better suited to distance running (or, any other sport). Instead, we live in world where people use attributes like skin color, country of origin, refugee status, etc. to decide who is "American" and who isn't. Focusing on Kenyan born vs. American born plays into this dynamic, even though your intention was simply to report -- factually -- the Kenyan origins of the American runners who performed so well.

Think of it this way. Remember when Meb won the NYC marathon? There were plenty of whispers about how Meb was not "really" American or American enough to "count" as the first American winner since Salazar (himself Cuban born). Here are some quotes from a NYT article -- including references Letsrun.com and Wejo:

[QUOTE BEGINS] The online postings about Keflezighi were anonymous. One of the milder ones on Letsrun.com said: “Give us all a break. It’s just another African marathon winner.”

A comment on The New York Times’s site said: “Keflezighi is really another elite African runner by birth, upbringing, and training. Americans are kidding themselves if they say he represents a resurgence of American distance prowess! On the other hand, he is an excellent representative of how we import everything we need!”

In a commentary on CNBC.com, Darren Rovell wrote, “Nothing against Keflezighi, but he’s like a ringer who you hire to work a couple hours at your office so that you can win the executive softball league.” [QUOTE ENDS]

Lest you think that this was a "long time ago," let's remember what the commentators said during the marathon in Rio. (Quite from this article:

http://womensrunning.competitor.com/2016/08/news/commentators-remarks-meb-keflezighi-rude_64174#1pHgRA0YGPt7crdm.97

)

One of the comments that created a bit more of a stir was the “correction” made during the second half of the race, after it was said more than once that Galen Rupp would be the “first American” to medal in the men’s Olympic marathon in 40 years, should he land on the podium (and he did). The comment was incorrect, and many people tweeted the network, pointing out that Meb Keflezighi, America’s favorite marathoner, had claimed silver in 2004. Someone must have relayed the message, and the announcers “corrected” themselves, changing their comments to say “first American-born” runner when referring to Rupp’s ultimate bronze medal. [END QUOTE]

For me, Meb is one of the most inspiring American athletes around -- period and without qualification. His running career happened exclusively in the US. He is, by all accounts, hugely patriotic. But, for some, his Eritrean roots mean that he will never be American enough.

That's the context of your tweets and your headlines -- a world where plenty of people feel comfortable saying that people like Meb, or Lopez Lomong, or Korir, etc. are not "really" American (or American "enough"). A world where plenty of people think African-born athletes are "taking spots" from "real Americans." And, a world where people say foreign-born athletes can't possibly inspire "American" runners (i.e., white, US born athletes). In the real world, It's not just about the genetic advantage, altitude advantage, whatever, of runners who trace their roots to East Africa. It's about saying who is American, what performances we "count," who inspires, etc. The fact that YOU were being descriptive doesn't change any of this. And, respectfully, given the platform that you have in LRC, I suggest that you could do better.

2. Also, I think it's important to remember that none of these runners "purchased" or sold citizenship a la Bahrain, etc. You don't just show up and get citizenship, even if you participate in WCAP.

3. Finally, remember that you frequently complain about coverage of the sport. Dividing the world up into African born vs. American born doesn't help with the marketing. Great performances are inspiring no matter what the country of origin -- think Usain Bolt, for example. Let's enjoy an awesome performance by Americans. Period.

Who's more American?

4 Army-naturalized Americans who qualified and self selected to represent their county in the world championships?

Or one U.S.-born American who qualified but declined to represent his country at the world championships?

The American Born Runner the others are hired guns

Equality is a moral and political concept. It is not a claim that everyone is physically and mentally identical or even equal in their capacities, although training and upbringing have far greater effects than are recognized in sports. If you are Kenyan in the region of El Doret, where most Kenyan distance runners come from, you will grow up at altitude with dirt roads, a running culture, a lot of incentive and opportunity to make money running, and a large number of training groups and people to train with doing superior hard training, all facts of upbringing. In the American South, you have a football culture in which kids start playing football at five years old in youth leagues that are exceptionally popular, particularly among African Americans. No surprise, then, that Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, and Florida are among the top producers per capita in NFL players.

Brojos are racist. Some runners on US x-country team are soldiers. Brojos insist in calling them "Kenyan born." Those "kenyan born" are also soldiers. Brojos, what was your excuse for not serving our great nation? Both of you are P U S S I E S.

So what is the issue. Reporting facts.

Grow a pair.

Lists all eight runners as being Kenyan and several list hometown as Kenya.

So if they and WCAP are proud of all eight of their runners as being from Kenya why not report them as Kenyan born.

The bigger question is why every single runner in WCAP is from Kenya

Tarnishes the program and in my mind the quality of the coach when he just recruits a stable of paid runners

A real nice Kenyan club exists within WCAP - seems similar to the Hebron group but government supported

wrong and wrong wrote:

rojo wrote:

It amazes me that the so called open minded people on the left - who in terms of public policy are obsessed with classifying people by race, gender, etc. to make sure that all outcomes are equal - get irate when we mention place of birth in a meet recap.

Rojo, you need to dial it back.

I actually agree with a lot of what you're saying, but when has Vipam (one of the longest-running LR posters there is) EVER made political or "obsessed" posts about race?

Furthermore, I'm politically a left-winger, and actually have no problem at all with that your recap.

Stop with your assumptions.

******

I can understand everyone have an opinion but to attack and make false statements hints your true motive. I never get on your website and promote any racial sterotypes, it takes away from the sport I love. They are soldiers SERVING our country and Im sure their DD214 will say American not Kenyan born. So were are the DD214 of all the protestors of our new American brothers?

Army WCAP wrote:

Lists all eight runners as being Kenyan and several list hometown as Kenya.

So if they and WCAP are proud of all eight of their runners as being from Kenya why not report them as Kenyan born.

The bigger question is why every single runner in WCAP is from Kenya

Tarnishes the program and in my mind the quality of the coach when he just recruits a stable of paid runners

A real nice Kenyan club exists within WCAP - seems similar to the Hebron group but government supported

Nothing is stopping American born runners from joining the Army and WCAP. We've been through this. You mad? Join up!

Alan

Since not Kenyan I need to run a 2:15 marathon to apply.

Army WCAP wrote:

Since not Kenyan I need to run a 2:15 marathon to apply.

Meet the published standards, or ask for a waiver. Join up.

Alan

rojo wrote:

Running makes it obvious that there are genetic differences between the people which contradicts what all of these political movements are trying to tell everyone that there aren't differences between people.

There are genetically determined differences between PEOPLE, but not between races. To suggest, say and print that the performance differences are due to racial genetics is what makes you a racist. In particular, to say the first 4 men at the US cross country championships yesterday only achieved what they did because they are runners who were born in Kenya, and not because they are talented hard working runners period, is what makes you a racist.

The simple fact is due to their altitude environment and lifestyle is what makes them talented runners. Logging thousands of miles before many are teenagers as their sole means of transportation is what create great runners not simply being AFRICAN BORN.

If you are mad? Join the Army! Walk the talk!

Took, you only emphasize the OPs point when you respond with such defensiveness. Not only that you miss the point entirely. What you don't understand is that unfortunately the language does matter. And you chant chalk it up to people on the left bringing race into everything. 1. Most white people on the left don't get it either and 2. RACE matters! Ignoring that it doesn't is what "white privilege" is all about.

I get your point about "black privilege", though it's likely the most insensitive/idiotic thing I've ever heard an educated person say.