I just posted the link. Not sure what you mean by Coevett but I am not that poster. He even all-caps for emphasis.
Here is the quote from the link, post #162:
1) I never said EPO doesn't work with Kenyan. A not trained Kenyan is a not trained athlete, and a weak Kenyan is a weak athlete. I wrote this many many times, you know but continue to use everything lieing about what I said. I SAID EPO DOESN'T WORK WITH KENYANS AND ETHIOPIANS BORN, LIVING AND TRAINING IN HIGH ALTITUDE, of course if their training is the best possible as volume and intensity (something nor you, and nor the researchers, know, also by far). After what Sondre Moen and Julien Wanders were able to do, I changed my assertion, explaining that EPO DOESN'T WORK WITH ATHLETES WITH BIG TALENT LIVING AND TRAINING IN ALTITUDE WITH CONTINUITY, no matter if are Kenyans, Ugandans, Ethiopians, Norwegians or from Switzerland. This means that I'm not a supporter of "superior talent" of African, in general, but of "the level of aerobic talent of the athletes", that can bring the athlete himself to reach top results in clean way if decides to live and train in altitude in proper way.
Drug testing is way, way, way behind the drugs. Does anyone debate that? ABP is not going to catch most drugs and the tests can't detect microdosing etc. Once you realize this, you understand how easy it is to cheat and how unlikely to get caught.
+1
With over 40% dopers at the top, still! despite the increased testing, it is highly unlikely that there was a clean champion in the last 50 years, especially during the almost uncontrolled doping in the Cold War era.
Plus, Kipyegon is from Sang like Rutto and Kipserem, two banned dopers, and from Kenya, which had north of 20 athletes banned last year alone.
However, that was an awesome performance. Congrats on the WR!
I dunno. I just watch it and it is what it is. Testing and all that will do it's thing. Some will get thru, some won't. I accept that and just enjoy it for what it is, as there's no chance that it'll ever be clean again. Do I wish it was all clean, sure. But that ship has sailed. In the end you can argue it's dirty or your can argue it's clean, but who of you really knows?
I just posted the link. Not sure what you mean by Coevett but I am not that poster. He even all-caps for emphasis.
Here is the quote from the link, post #162:
1) I never said EPO doesn't work with Kenyan. A not trained Kenyan is a not trained athlete, and a weak Kenyan is a weak athlete. I wrote this many many times, you know but continue to use everything lieing about what I said. I SAID EPO DOESN'T WORK WITH KENYANS AND ETHIOPIANS BORN, LIVING AND TRAINING IN HIGH ALTITUDE, of course if their training is the best possible as volume and intensity (something nor you, and nor the researchers, know, also by far). After what Sondre Moen and Julien Wanders were able to do, I changed my assertion, explaining that EPO DOESN'T WORK WITH ATHLETES WITH BIG TALENT LIVING AND TRAINING IN ALTITUDE WITH CONTINUITY, no matter if are Kenyans, Ugandans, Ethiopians, Norwegians or from Switzerland. This means that I'm not a supporter of "superior talent" of African, in general, but of "the level of aerobic talent of the athletes", that can bring the athlete himself to reach top results in clean way if decides to live and train in altitude in proper way.
The words above look exactly similar to how Professor Renato Canova writes, including the characteristic grammar errors. Bizarre to witness the professor using an alias.
Anyone notice how she didn't actually stop when she crossed the finish line? She didn't collapse in the arms of her coach like Bannister did when he broke the 4-minute barrier? She just kept going. LOL!!! Nah, she's not doping - pure as snow! Couldn't be dirty cuz she's really a sweet person.
I just posted the link. Not sure what you mean by Coevett but I am not that poster. He even all-caps for emphasis.
Here is the quote from the link, post #162:
1) I never said EPO doesn't work with Kenyan. A not trained Kenyan is a not trained athlete, and a weak Kenyan is a weak athlete. I wrote this many many times, you know but continue to use everything lieing about what I said. I SAID EPO DOESN'T WORK WITH KENYANS AND ETHIOPIANS BORN, LIVING AND TRAINING IN HIGH ALTITUDE, of course if their training is the best possible as volume and intensity (something nor you, and nor the researchers, know, also by far). After what Sondre Moen and Julien Wanders were able to do, I changed my assertion, explaining that EPO DOESN'T WORK WITH ATHLETES WITH BIG TALENT LIVING AND TRAINING IN ALTITUDE WITH CONTINUITY, no matter if are Kenyans, Ugandans, Ethiopians, Norwegians or from Switzerland. This means that I'm not a supporter of "superior talent" of African, in general, but of "the level of aerobic talent of the athletes", that can bring the athlete himself to reach top results in clean way if decides to live and train in altitude in proper way.
The words above look exactly similar to how Professor Renato Canova writes, including the characteristic grammar errors. Bizarre to witness the professor using an alias.
You are right. Those words look exactly like how Canova writes. In fact, they come from a post written by Canova, posting as Canova.
If you click the link Cleansportfan mentions, it takes you to a post by Canova.
Are you serious Alan? Every record holder or Olympic medalist since the 70s used PEDs?
I just can't believe it. Honestly...I can't - it just doesn't make any sense. I'll accept it if you can provide some kind of articulable evidence that supports you claim?
☝️She's never failed a drug test, never been provisionally suspended for an ABP violation, never trained with a doping coach, never associated with shady characters & doesn't look like the type of person that would dope.
Why is Canova saying she's clean & harshly condemning everyone here on this thread that are casting aspersions on her (he sounds pretty ticked off about this).
1% of doping tests return a positive. Antidoping estimates put doping at championship level from 40-80%. Kenyans are busted on a regular basis. That's how reliably clean she and her compatriots are.
Holy Mackerel!...only "1% of doping tests return a positive?" 😲
How many tests are administered annually? Maybe in the thousands? And only 1% positive return?
And if doping prevalence at the championship level is anywhere near "80%" - then this sport can no longer be taken seriously. Lol
I am amazed there are still so many Chinese from '93 and '97 on the women's 1500 list. Thats 25-30 years ago. We have better shoes and pace lights and better drugs!
Anyway. Yes she is on PEDs. There hasn't been an Olympic medalist or record holder in any event that wasn't on PEDs since at least the 70s maybe even the 60s or before.
Just accept it and move on.
Alan
Are you serious Alan? Every record holder or Olympic medalist since the 70s used PEDs?
I just can't believe it. Honestly...I can't - it just doesn't make any sense. I'll accept it if you can provide some kind of articulable evidence that supports you claim?
☝️She's never failed a drug test, never been provisionally suspended for an ABP violation, never trained with a doping coach, never associated with shady characters & doesn't look like the type of person that would dope.
Why is Canova saying she's clean & harshly condemning everyone here on this thread that are casting aspersions on her (he sounds pretty ticked off about this).
Marion Jones....never failed a drug test...
Lance Armstrong....never failed a drug test...
'Ma's Army'....never failed a drug test...
And so on and so forth...
The only tests you even have to worry about now are the random out of competition tests and even those are easy enough to avoid or pass unless you are an idiot.
Before out of competition tests it was free game. Now you have to be a little more nuanced.
Just a little bit of research on how testing is done and how easy it is to get around it really opens your eyes.
faith would probably run around 4.01 without drugs,which probably would be the absolute ceiling for a clean woman athlete.another poster on here said anything under 4.03 is doping,but im not sure.i guess we'll never know.her doping is no more obvious than ryan crouser.
I'm really tired to see people accusing of doping athletes they never personally met.
If you know something ofr athletics, you can only admire the amazing running technique of Faith, product of natural talent. Look at the elastic reaction, the relax under the hard efforts, the tactical ability and the absolute mental balance in any part of the race.
Ask yourself because EVERY COMPETITOR goes to celebrate her WR. Of course, nobody exists who can have the suspicion Faith is on drugs : everybody accept her superior talent, and likes her sweet character : friendly with everybody, never arrogant, always ready to help other people in Kenya.
In 2016-2017, she lived in Keringet (2700m altitude). I went, together with one of my assistant coaches, from Iten to Keringet twice per week, for coaching Geoffrey Kirui, who in that year won Boston and WCh. The plan was, for Kirui, 10 following days in Iten, the next 10 days in Keringet, at home, with myself moving from Iten (about 250 km far).
In Keringet, I lived in the same house of Faith. She was still young, but already Olympic Champion in Rio de Janeiro. She was the one preparing lunch and dinner, and taking care of cleaning the house together with her sister Beatrice. She was absolutely a normal person, never using her victories for becoming arrogant.
When I was there, many girls (not only runners) came every day asking for some support, not only money, but regarding common problems, and she always helped everybody, sometimes organizing a working group when the requested support was in that direction, sometimes moving personally when people needed to be encouraged to solve problems of their life.
Only to think Faith is on doping is an insult not only for the athlete, but for every person who, like Faith, has the only fault to be born with superior talent, and with a wonderful character. Who, without knowing, put not only under suspicion, but with TOTAL CERTAINTY Faith (doped, doped and doped, don't you Armstronglivs ?), shows only his total absence of balance, tha absolute incompetence in athletics and incapacity to do analysis based on facts and not on "beliefs" already cultivated with years of suspicions : in other words, shows that his contribution to the solution of every problem is ZERO, because fruit of a sick and obsessed mentality, probably not only about athletics, but about every situation of a normal life.
Mr. Canova, I used to appreciate your posts on LRC and was appalled at the treatment you received. But, with 40 years in the sport myself, I've come to realize that you are part of the problem. You are either knowingly advising athletes that are PED users, or you are so ignorant and gullible about it that it amounts to the same. The funny part is that "Italian coach" in most circles might as well be "East German coach." That you get on here to defend all this is the height of absurdity. Have you no shame, sir?
faith would probably run around 4.01 without drugs,which probably would be the absolute ceiling for a clean woman athlete.another poster on here said anything under 4.03 is doping,but im not sure.i guess we'll never know.her doping is no more obvious than ryan crouser.
So, are you saying that one of favorite female runners that I follow, Laura Muir, is doping?
Are you serious Alan? Every record holder or Olympic medalist since the 70s used PEDs?
I just can't believe it. Honestly...I can't - it just doesn't make any sense. I'll accept it if you can provide some kind of articulable evidence that supports you claim?
☝️She's never failed a drug test, never been provisionally suspended for an ABP violation, never trained with a doping coach, never associated with shady characters & doesn't look like the type of person that would dope.
Why is Canova saying she's clean & harshly condemning everyone here on this thread that are casting aspersions on her (he sounds pretty ticked off about this).
Marion Jones....never failed a drug test...
Lance Armstrong....never failed a drug test...
'Ma's Army'....never failed a drug test...
And so on and so forth...
The only tests you even have to worry about now are the random out of competition tests and even those are easy enough to avoid or pass unless you are an idiot.
Before out of competition tests it was free game. Now you have to be a little more nuanced.
Just a little bit of research on how testing is done and how easy it is to get around it really opens your eyes.
You and others need to stop being so naive.
Alan
Appreciate the response.
I'm not being naive. I just figured with today's more sophisticated testing methods, it would be very difficult to dope & get away with it.
I was reading a study not too long ago that the sensitivity for detecting EPO microdosing has improved immensely. Supposedly a dose can be detected within 12-18 hours within the last injection. It used be 8 hours & a doper would take an injection at the beginning of the 8 hr "nighttime" period where an athlete cannot be tested during the night (10:00 pm - 6:00 am).
And there's the ABP which contains the hematological, steroidal & hormonal modules.These are constantly be monitored by a computer. If any anomalies are detected - the athlete's ABP is flagged & they become subjected to target testing, or an actual doping case can be initiated against them.
So, again I would think with this revolutionary sophisticated new testing - it would strongly deter any athlete thinking of doping. 🤔
But a number of studies showed that the ABP only gets triggered if Hb increases suddenly by over 15%.
We have also seen some 15-20% doing blood doping in competition at worlds 2011 and 2013, with only 1 (not 1%!!) caught. Even the infamous leaked likely doping list from 2016 with <20 (not 20%) likely dopers is way too short. And EPO user Kiprop only was mentioned as suspicious, not as likely doping.
Conclusion: the ABP only flags the worst offenders, "gentle" blood doping is still no problem.
Faith Kipyegon just outkicked Genzebe Dibaba to win the Women's 1500. Here's why I think she's dirty:
1. She ran a 1:57 final 800 meters. That's absurd.
2. She out kicked a runner who's under a HUGE cloud of suspicion; in fact, she totally destroyed her. If you're that much better than a likely druggie - how in hell did you get there?
3. Kipyegon's coach (Bram Som of the Netherlands) also coaches Abeba Aregawi who was busted for Meldonium use. I think there's 0% chance that Aregawi's use was not known by Som, and likely that she's on a whole stew of PEDs - just got busted for that one. One dirty athlete under a coach makes the others very suspect.
4. There's horribly ineffective drug testing in Kenya - we are hearing more and more about how prevalent and common PED usage is among top athletes there. After a performance like this, there's no reason to assume she's simply "more talented".
It sucks to watch a championship race and immediately think "that's BS", but that's exactly what I felt after that performance.
Track and field is dirty. The whole Olympic Games is dirty. All sports are dirty and it's not just the Africans. Mo, Froome, Rupp and anyone else you can think of. This is real life. You wanna believe some fairytale that Americans just work harder? A 30 second PR in the 10,000 by anyone other than an American would be suspicious. Murphy medaling? If his name was Abel Hashim everyone would be screaming doper. It's like when Sosa, McGuire and Bonds were play homer in derby fo a few years and then things started to unravel everyone seemed surprised. Don't be surprise little guy, this is the way professional sports works. If you ain't cheatin you ain't tryin.
So why do you watch or care? Ugly wife or girlfriend, humping some other guy?
From the Letsrun headline today: "Kipyegon’s time of 3:49.11 equates to approximately a 4:07.44 mile, which is almost a full FIVE seconds faster than the current women’s mile record set by Sifan Hassan in Monaco in 2019."
I don't know but she is faster than a lot of athletes that have been banned.
That's such an irritating headline. 3:49.11 is also about 1 second faster than the previous 1500m world record, which is *the race she actually ran yesterday,.* Hassan's best 1500 is 3:51, why not use that as a comparison if the point is how it compares to Hassan? All that shows is that the mile WR is weaker and not challenged as often. They're just being sensationalist.
Unrelated, but I've never liked the 1500->mile conversion anyways. I get that you have to assume they'd slow down a bit relative to their average pace, but with as good as Kipyegon looked as she was finishing yesterday, I feel like she could have continued her kick and run that last 109m faster than 18.33...
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