Doping in Kenya English video

Deanouk wrote:

Metric Miler wrote:

My thread about this lady got deleted.

She PB'd by another 20 seconds the other day in the European champs. Came 7th, over 25 seconds behind the winner and two places behind Jo Pavey who is 42.

Real doper indeed. Kinda just shows she is at a low level in an incredibly uncompetitive event, don't it.

I don't think one can claim anyone is doping based on a pb and big improvement.

And in the clip I saw in the news, didn't the 'doctor' say something like, ' 3 Brits, I THINK".

Infact the only one who claims it is a nameless cretin who hides behind a keyboard.... to his standard Jo Pavey can only be a doper being 42...

The guilty by association now extends to training in specific countries... smh

Freddie trained with Farah quite a lot as fas I know. There was a video about him on youtube.

Arrests are good wrote:

Skeptik wrote:

El Keniano,

Help me understand . If all this alleged (empty vials and used syringes) are found in the training camp , or proximity, of so many prominent Kenyan and European (presumably Rio Bound) athletes, How in the world is Kenya still compliant with WADA.

Because Wada compliance doesn't cover medical devices found in dustbins in hotels used by all manor of people from all across the world when you have absolutely no idea who used them.

Flotrack have reported it as 'an elite Kenyan camp' but it far from it - it's a hotel open to all and sundry, inhabited year round by runners (and general tourists) from around the world (including some Kenyans)

There's no more connection to these drugs with Kenyan runners than Latvian runners than a photographer from Illinois who wanted to take photos of the Rift Valley.

Great answer. Wasn't the room they found the vial allegedly occupied by a runner from athletics powerhouse, Hungary? It'll be a scandal when they are named. Who's to stop them from popping into a pharmacy for their EPO.

The EPO was in a Hungarian language labelled pack

The legal vitamin came from Hungary I thought, not necessarily the athlete who took it. It didn't say whose room the EPO came from (or their nationality).It is open to all and sundry. However, the british and Turkish teams have been staying there so there have been a lot of elite athletes there.Security in the place got extra tight when the british team started going there about 4 or 5 years ago.

El Keniano wrote:

Arrests are good wrote:

Because Wada compliance doesn't cover medical devices found in dustbins in hotels used by all manor of people from all across the world when you have absolutely no idea who used them.

Flotrack have reported it as 'an elite Kenyan camp' but it far from it - it's a hotel open to all and sundry, inhabited year round by runners (and general tourists) from around the world (including some Kenyans)

There's no more connection to these drugs with Kenyan runners than Latvian runners than a photographer from Illinois who wanted to take photos of the Rift Valley.

Great answer. Wasn't the room they found the vial allegedly occupied by a runner from athletics powerhouse, Hungary? It'll be a scandal when they are named. Who's to stop them from popping into a pharmacy for their EPO.

don't understate it wrote:

Security in the place got extra tight when the british team started going there about 4 or 5 years ago.

Apparently there are something like 16 cameras in place. According to the Dutch owner of the camp, these cameras are used in part to keep an eye on the athletes, to ensure that the camp remains drug-free.

Well it was really a criticism about Seppelt, and how under impressed I am with him generally, regarding all of his documentaries. Despite all of his hidden cameras, and undercover investigations, and four documentaries about Kenya, he hasn't really given us any real information about actual elite doping.But now that you bring it up:- There isn't much evidence about elite Kenyan doping. We can count anecdotes and busts on one hand.- There isn't much evidence (Kenyan or non-Kenyan), even anecdotal, that EPO works at the elite level, for track/road running events at slower than VO2max speeds.- It looks like many of the doping positives in Kenya come from local doctors or chemists.- And many others positives look like they might be from an "unsophisticated" foreign influence.In another separate but related thought, I wonder why athletes would take EPO at altitude. There is as a similar body of evidence for hi-lo training, as there is for EPO, that the benefits of EPO would be marginal, or substantially reduced, compared to the risk of getting caught.

trollism wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

I still don't get any sense that Seppelt has penetrated any inner circle of elite Kenyan doping.

Is that cause there isn't any elite Kenyan doping?

Or there is but it doesn't work?

Or there is doping in Kenya but only involving evil foreigners?

Sorry, I forget which excuse goes with which apologist.

rekrunner wrote:

In another separate but related thought, I wonder why athletes would take EPO at altitude. There is as a similar body of evidence for hi-lo training, as there is for EPO, that the benefits of EPO would be marginal, or substantially reduced, compared to the risk of getting caught.

you need to do some more thinking before deciding to post

rekdrunner;

Seppelt has almost single-handedly gotten a major world power sanctioned out of the Olympics, while all you have accomplished is to lower the median Letsrun IQ with you drug-apologist dribblings. At least Jon Orange had a marginal entertainment value with his trollish cluelessness, you are nothing but a bore.

cleans wrote:

don't understate it wrote:

Security in the place got extra tight when the british team started going there about 4 or 5 years ago.

Apparently there are something like 16 cameras in place. According to the Dutch owner of the camp, these cameras are used in part to keep an eye on the athletes, to ensure that the camp remains drug-free.

Did you say the camp had a Dutch owner?

Would that be the same as the Netherlands? They have good chocolate.

Would that owner be married to Lornah Kiplagat? She was the former half-marathon world record holder.

She became a citizen of the Netherlands in 2003. She married Pieter Langerhorst, who was her former coach/manager from the Netherlands.

That is just a c………..

(Lornah Kiplagat did not get married to Jos Hermens from the Netherlands.)

(I was also hoping that Lornah Kiplagat was managed by Jos Hermens from the Netherlands.)

Darn.

I agree with Rekrunner.

sepellts work in Kenya has been of little value in the fight against doping.

We are not talking about his work in Russia. If his work in Russia was good that does not automatically make his work in Kenya good. Each are judged on their individual merits.

I'm not convinced he even 'found' the EPO where he says he did - all he has shown us is a still image of a bin followed by a still image of An EPO box with a voice over saying that's where we found it!

He got the doctors arrested which was nice and will hopefully stop other doctors making up similar stories in the hope of getting money - listen to what the 'doctors' say again, they have very limited knowledge of the topic and are clearly salesman more than they are medical experts! "Try it with some steroids", "if you get tested you will be fine" hardly high level advice from experts.

rekrunner wrote:

In another separate but related thought, I wonder why athletes would take EPO at altitude. There is as a similar body of evidence for hi-lo training, as there is for EPO, that the benefits of EPO would be marginal, or substantially reduced, compared to the risk of getting caught.

Does it really matter? The general issue with taking EPO is it's cheating. A misinformed or non-responding cheat is still a cheat.

cleans wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

In another separate but related thought, I wonder why athletes would take EPO at altitude. There is as a similar body of evidence for hi-lo training, as there is for EPO, that the benefits of EPO would be marginal, or substantially reduced, compared to the risk of getting caught.

Does it really matter? The general issue with taking EPO is it's cheating. A misinformed or non-responding cheat is still a cheat.

Rita Jeptoo already tried that excuse.

What fun!!!

Dr. Jeffrey Brown also has a deposition hearing today.

(Are you having fun yet Alberto?)

What fun!!!

cleans wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

In another separate but related thought, I wonder why athletes would take EPO at altitude. There is as a similar body of evidence for hi-lo training, as there is for EPO, that the benefits of EPO would be marginal, or substantially reduced, compared to the risk of getting caught.

Does it really matter? The general issue with taking EPO is it's cheating. A misinformed or non-responding cheat is still a cheat.

Of course it doesn't matter from a perspective of catching and banning but it's an interesting idea to consider on the side.

There are some rules of the sport which I think are nonsense, but I choose to participate in the sport so I must abide by the rules, even the ones I don't like, of which drugs is not one of them - this is just an example, to say - it makes no difference if the drugs don't work (they just make you worse...) they are still banned so f off and enjoy your ban!!

Of course EPO is cheating. My question is more that at altitude, it is all risk and no benefit. You can achieve the desired extra red blood cells with altitude alone.

cleans wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

In another separate but related thought, I wonder why athletes would take EPO at altitude. There is as a similar body of evidence for hi-lo training, as there is for EPO, that the benefits of EPO would be marginal, or substantially reduced, compared to the risk of getting caught.

Does it really matter? The general issue with taking EPO is it's cheating. A misinformed or non-responding cheat is still a cheat.

... said the pot.

trackfan. wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

In another separate but related thought, I wonder why athletes would take EPO at altitude. There is as a similar body of evidence for hi-lo training, as there is for EPO, that the benefits of EPO would be marginal, or substantially reduced, compared to the risk of getting caught.

you need to do some more thinking before deciding to post

So Seppelt made 4 undercover Kenyan documentaries, and you respond with Russia. Kinda makes my point. Maybe at the end of season two we find out who doped Matthew Kisorio.But should we praise Seppelt for the Russian ban?WADA gift wrapped the Stepanovs and delivered them to Seppelt's door. I don't give Seppelt too much credit here.Far from single handed, the Shobukhovas were whistle blowing with the IAAF Ethics Commission, in an investigation leading to 3 lifetime bans, and a 5 year ban.The Russian athletes were victims of their federation, and continue to be victims of the public, thanks to Seppelt.And he got the IAAF accusations completely wrong.

Kenya Believe It? wrote:

rekrunner;

Seppelt has almost single-handedly gotten a major world power sanctioned out of the Olympics, while all you have accomplished is to lower the median Letsrun IQ with you drug-apologist dribblings. At least Jon Orange had a marginal entertainment value with his trollish cluelessness, you are nothing but a bore.

gotrainalready wrote:

Clerk wrote:

Bump, there is another post popping up, and it would be good to get all the discussion in one single thread.

Yes, let's just have one big concentrated pity party thread all in one place where we can go on pretending that the reason white guys lose all the time is because of drugs and not because they are slow as treacle and lazy and shiftless.

Yo brainiac, Kenya: 40 doping positives in the last 3 years alone...

Zero out of season testing. Gazillion warnings by WADA/IAAF that they are out of compliance with testing requirements and lack of a competent certified drug testing lab.

Yeah...it's all racism. Not.

I won't pretend do know anything about athletes being protected but Gatlin running 9.80 at 34 years old is surely suspicious, no? Also ran a 9.74 last year I think.Ben Johnson ran 9.79 for reference. I believe nobody who hasn't been suspended for PED has run a faster time than that since, other than the Cleanest Champion Usain Bolt.

TrackCoach wrote:

Which U.S. sprinter(s) is being protected by USATF and/or USADA? Tell me which sprinter in the U.S. is doping and perhaps we can start discussing that athlete. Truthfully, I can't think of a single U.S. sprinter that is running so phenomenally that it can only be achieved by doping.