Jeremy Wariner: USA's Best 800m Runner that Never Was

- I'm not caught up on him being white

- "Slim" is good for a 800 meter runner

- Thoughts on 400 IH ...

- What's a WC sprinter to do when he/she get's slower? Quit?

Tom Courtney, USA, 1956, Olympic Gold, 800m; 1956 Olympic Gold, 4 x 400m. Courtney's PB: 400m, 45.8 & 800m, 1:45.8.

- Nice

- So it's not impossible with fast-twitch fibers, maybe just harder

Prior to 1968 Olympics (1964 & earlier), cinder tracks. Heavy leather shoes with heavy one inch spikes. My dad raced in '50's & '60's with said heavy shoes. I trained in my dad's shoes in the 70's on cinder. They were like cement boots. 45+ was very impressive in the '50's.

Billy Konchellah was 400m runner in his teens. At age 18 he clocked 45.39 at the African championships.

Jerry Cann wrote:

Billy Konchellah was 400m runner in his teens. At age 18 he clocked 45.39 at the African championships.

Good call .... Billy was awesome at both 400 & 800: wonder if he's still in jail for murdering his wife?

Jeremy needs to give this a shot ... many forefathers!

I always thought Danny Everett had a good 800m build and he ran 43.9 for 400.

- Mark versus Danny right?

Lickety Split wrote:

- Mark versus Danny right?

It's hard for me to fathom how much of a moron you are. My word, how do you even make it through the day?

Just because someone is thin and white, it doesn't make them a 800m specialist.

sugar blanc wrote:

Lickety Split wrote:

- Mark versus Danny right?

It's hard for me to fathom how much of a moron you are. My word, how do you even make it through the day?

Just because someone is thin and white, it doesn't make them a 800m specialist.

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Dude: I'm tracking Mark Everett a black "Gator" out of UF 400 guy that moved up to 800 versus Danny Everett from UCLA that was a 400 meter specialist.

Neither Mark or Danny are white .... I think Mark was thin, Danny ... subjective -- remember him w/more muscle.

I'm neither tracking being a moron nor have difficulties working through the day ....

ironside wrote:

Tom Courtney, USA, 1956, Olympic Gold, 800m; 1956 Olympic Gold, 4 x 400m. Courtney's PB: 400m, 45.8 & 800m, 1:45.8.

Many top 800 guys have been able to run a 400m in under 46 seconds.

Not a singe 400m guy who has broken 44 seconds has ever done a damn thing in the 800m.

Danny was thinner than Mark.

Here's Danny Everette in the middle of Quincy Watts and Steve Lewis:

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/gc/1792655-quinn-watts-danny-everett-and-steve-lewis-pose-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=OCUJ5gVf7YdJQI2Xhkc2QEsU5TjlLVDPcmVky6glmvuYpGH97J3tQ%2BHlNmiZhueqXUSlBRmNsyW1roc09%2F3cyg%3D%3D

Tell me that isn't an 800m build. His 400 PR is 43.81.

Here's Mark Everette:

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/jun-1998-mark-everett-runs-in-the-mens-800m-during-the-us-track-field-picture-id340992

44.59/ 1:43.20

oozzsk wrote:

Metric Miler wrote:

No, this is the worst myth perpetuated in the long distance running community.

There is NO evidence that you can change muscle fibre types significantly with training. You are born a sprinter, you die a sprinter.

....

There have been no studies to show any training methods can cause a significant changing of these muscle fibres either way. Only aging appears to cause a small percentage of fibres to become slow twitch.

Your ideas are false (as usual). The fact is that there just hasn't been much research into the issue at all. There's not much evidence for EITHER argument. All that we know so far shows that it is logically possible for changes in muscle type to occur, but nothing has really been proven for or against this.

No, I'm not.

My statements hold true. The research that has been done so far shows significant changes from type II to type I fibres or vice versa.

If possible, it is thought it may take years and years of training to achieve such affects. In the relatively short career of an athlete this is impractical, and like I said there is no evidence from the studies done to show any significant changes.

The only affects observed have been those of muscle fibre types changing due to age, and of the ability to change 'hybrid fibres' to be type IIa or type IIb through training.

Really this same argument can be made about the 800m and 1500m yet nobody ever does. Mikel Amos, he is 5'10" and sleight, maybe 65kg. He looks to be a perfect 1500m build. He has run 1:41.

Greatest 1500m runner that never was?

No. Ashton Eaton can still run a pretty good 800 and 1k (this is where Curtis Beach excels in the decathlon and indoor pentathlon(?)), but he doesn't have the body type for the 800m. The best 400m men have typically been about 6'2" 170-180, and the best 800m vary but the taller ones are a bit thinner than the 400m men. Wariner was something like 6'2" 160.

Metric Miler wrote:

No, I'm not.

My statements hold true. The research that has been done so far shows significant changes from type II to type I fibres or vice versa.

If possible, it is thought it may take years and years of training to achieve such affects. In the relatively short career of an athlete this is impractical, and like I said there is no evidence from the studies done to show any significant changes.

The only affects observed have been those of muscle fibre types changing due to age, and of the ability to change 'hybrid fibres' to be type IIa or type IIb through training.

Yes, you are wrong. The research link that you provided does not support your argument. It supports mine. It clearly says that significant changes have been seen in short time frames (as opposed to the "years and years" that you claim).

"...was able to decrease the percentage of type I fibers (53 to 39%)" in 10 weeks

"...50% decrease in MHCI (18.2-9.2%)" in 6 weeks

"...6 weeks of high intensity sprint training resulted in a 7% and 6% decrease in the proportions of type 1 and type IIX fibers respectively, while the proportion of type IIA increased 12% with training"

Once again, you are wrong as usual. This time you even provided evidence against your own argument. Good job.

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Why is it all about muscle fibers? Doesn't further aerobic/anaerobic development contribute to a 400m sprinter's ability to take on the 800m?

I'm still on my Danny Everett kick.

Here he is in a video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0V5FRli9sE

Get some miles in him and it looks like he would fly in an 800.

Read again. Significant changes.

6% or 7% is not significant. 10-15% is not significant. The topic at discussion is whether you can take a sprinter who is going to be 70% fast twitch and change their muscle fibre types to be predominantly slow twitch. There is no evidence of large changes through training.

The author states if it is possible to change larger percentages of muscle fibres then it may take years and studies across an athletes lifetime are necessary.