141/2
141/2
Never give up, never surrender wrote: I don't agree with your assessment. For a miler/5K guy, the start of the 800 is faster than their comfort zone, so to finish fast is harder. For the strong 400 guy, like JW, the 52 first lap is easier, and he may be able to surge starting lap 2 when others die.
This ^
I think "doesn't work for 800" opposed my opinion just because he was looking for an excuse to inject an inordinate number of exclamation points into his response.
TAA wrote:
To be fair agip Wariner was the US Indoor Champ in 2013. He still has something there.
well it wasn't really much of an accomplishment, was it?
Place Athlete Name Affiliation Time Qual ReacTime Heat(Pl)
1 Jeremy Wariner adidas 46.40 Q 0.174 1 (1)
2 Marcus Boyd Unattached 46.77 Q 0.139 1 (2)
3 Michael Courtney Unattached 46.94 q 0.244 1 (3)
4 Bershawn Jackson Nike 47.36 Q 0.154 2 (1)
5 Randy Curry Unattached 47.43 Q 0.205 2 (2)
6 Ray Miller Phoenix Elite 47.68 q 0.206 1 (4)
7 Christopher Harrison Unattached 48.01 0.174 2 (3)
8 Shaquille Howard Academy of Art 48.34 0.174 2 (4)
Maybe it's just me, but Wariner has seemed delusional the last few years. It's like he won't accept that he just isn't very good any more. Every race, he seems to fall short of his goal, and then in the interview afterwards, he sounds all upbeat about how he's going to get things together in the next race, but he never does.
I definitely think trying the 800m is a good idea for Wariner. I don't expect to see him do well at it, but it's worth a shot, because he's clearly finished in the 400m. He probably couldn't even beat the guys at high school nationals any more.
The talk about 400m runners dominating the 800 if they were interested or financially motivated is a load of crap. People that argue for that seem to have a misconception that the 800m is an incredibly weak event, and thus would be easy pickings for a decent 400 runner. I think this is a fallacy that stems from the peculiar physiology involved in running the 800m. It is a weird event in that hundreds, or even thousands, of high school athletes could maintain WR pace for half the distance (i.e. can run 400m in 50.4), so it seems surprising that nobody on the world level can maintain that pace for 2 laps. What other event is like that, where running half the distance at world record pace wouldn't even make you a big name in HS?
I hope Wariner ends up doing a couple 600s indoors, that will give us a much better sense of his ability. If he is able to run 1:20 or lower, we could confidently say he could run 1:50 or lower.
Felix Sanchez ran 1:51 and Bershawn Jackson has run 1:53. If they trained more specifically they could probably hit 1:50. It depends how much Wariner is training for this, or how much of it is just a rust buster.
FYI- from an old article
http://speedendurance.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/RandomSampleofElite400800mtimes.jpg
Wise Strategy wrote:
Never give up, never surrender wrote: I don't agree with your assessment. For a miler/5K guy, the start of the 800 is faster than their comfort zone, so to finish fast is harder. For the strong 400 guy, like JW, the 52 first lap is easier, and he may be able to surge starting lap 2 when others die.This ^
I think "doesn't work for 800" opposed my opinion just because he was looking for an excuse to inject an inordinate number of exclamation points into his response.
You clearly know nothing about 800 physiology.
rojo wrote:
Everyone for years has speculated how fast Wariner (or any 400 guy) could run for 800. The boards have been populated with this talk for a LONG time -
http://goo.gl/LFBHlj. Some idiot even said he could run 141/2.
Well Chris Chavez caught up with Wariner and it looks like we'll soon find out:
http://www.sportingnews.com/sport/story/2015-01-14/jeremy-wariner-2015-season-800-meters-olympic-gold-medal-track-and-fieldFor the record, Wariner is hoping for something reasonable:
http://www.sportingnews.com/sport/story/2015-01-14/jeremy-wariner-2015-season-800-meters-olympic-gold-medal-track-and-fieldJeremy Wariner said:“I have no idea,” Wariner said. “It could be great if I could open up under 1:50 and run around 1:47 or 1:48 as my first one ever. Anything faster than that I’d be happy with. Anything slower than that, I know I’d need more strength work.”
How fast do you think he'll go?
1:50 if he has a good day - Wariner's quote shows that he may not understand training for the 800. Aerobic endurance is the secret to a fast time, not strength or speed work. College sprinters who can run 46 for 400 are a dime a dozen but few people in the world can run 1:44.00 for the 800. That is 6 seconds slower per lap. Aerobic fitness is what makes the 800 meter champion. I don't expect much from Wariner in the 800
except an interesting story.
idiot alert. wrote: You clearly know nothing about 800 physiology.
If you don't think running a quality 800 on negative splits is a sound and realistic strategy, then you are clearly confusing what is possible physiologically with what is possible psychologically. Anyone mocking this is the same type of loser who says "we are doing it this way just because that's the way it's always been done".
to runn:
88 champ was Paul Ereng, who was indeed a converted 400 guy.
To those who think skinny = endurance, Butch Reynolds was pretty well built, yet had an even slower 200 than Wariner and ran 43.29!
I clearly know nothing about 800 physiology
agip wrote:
TAA wrote:To be fair agip Wariner was the US Indoor Champ in 2013. He still has something there.
well it wasn't really much of an accomplishment, was it?
How many national championships have you won, stud?
EPOPE wrote:
Who cares how fast he goes, the point is that he's trying something, and is to be applauded for that.
He was finished a long time ago in the 400, sprintgeezer called it on this board. It's great that he's recognized it, and is moving on to another challenge.
Good for him!
Agreed!
It would be cool if he had enough ability, and enough left in the tank to run a whole season of 800's, even if he just started in the 1:46.9 range.
Are their any training articles out there with his 600 times / PB's???
I don't think Warner has "recognized" that he can no longer compete at 400m. He hasn't really moved to the 800m. He just has the one race planned at the beginning of the season, and it doesn't sound like he's all that serious about it:
“There’s some nerves in it because I want to run fast and do well,” Wariner said. “At the same time I’m out there for fun and trying to work on certain things for my 400.”
Gun a bee wrote:
Gonna be ugly
This. Or DNF.
youtube research project - please go find the top ten or so fastest 800m races ever ran and let us know how many of them were a negative split.but what do i know. you know bolt should just run the 800...start of running 14s 100s and by the last 2 or so be blazing sub10s! should work based on your negative split strategy, right? early pace would be super-easy.
Wise Strategy wrote:
idiot alert. wrote: You clearly know nothing about 800 physiology.If you don't think running a quality 800 on negative splits is a sound and realistic strategy, then you are clearly confusing what is possible physiologically with what is possible psychologically. Anyone mocking this is the same type of loser who says "we are doing it this way just because that's the way it's always been done".
dial it up wrote:
I think some people think he is moving to the 800. He isn't. If you read the article he wants to make the 2015 and 2016 teams in the 400.
His coach has been with him for years , adding strength racing/training may help his overall fitness formula. He may not make it as an individual in the 400 ,but placing in the top six at nationals puts him the relay pool and on the team. Nobody is really running any faster over the last couple of years , added strength , change in tactics, trying to make a team vs winning, he could sneak in for 3rd and make a team.
"If his '14 SB best was 46, is there any reason not to think he can go out in 55 and then do the same to bring it home sub 1:50? Wouldnt 55 be almost a walk in the park for him? I was never a sprinter, so this seems logical to me."
It never ceases to amaze that so many people think this way. Hey if you can run 10.x for 100, then anything slower should seem like jogging, right? You ought to be able to run twice as far and have it seem easy. As a former miler I can tell you there is some truth, but it's also just plain false. For me the start of a 2 mile or 5k might feel really easy, but if I went out even a little too fast for me then somewhere around 6 laps things started to get really hard. How come, I was jogging, right?
As other have said, I've seen 46.x guys try the 800. For 400 they seem to be cruising. Hey 53 is damn easy. Even though 600 they might look pretty good. Some thing seems to happen to most of them after that. They hit the wall. Hard.
I've seen guy be on 1:50-1:52 pace through 600 and not break 2:00!! And never want to run an 800 again.
That does not mean there are no sprinters who can do it. We did have a 46.x guy run around 1:53 without much specific 800 training. We'd need an extra relay guy, and he could do it. He was a decent 200 guy as well 22.x something, but he was a skinny, longer stride and just had it in him. He probably could have switched to 800 and might have been better - maybe a 1:46 guy.
If Wariner has done the training, and if he has the ability, then I could see him breaking 1:50. It's impossible to predict, and I have not seen him train. I'd think, though, that he must have done something to indicate he's capable of running somewhere around 1:50 or he would not consider it. Even then he still has to do it in a race where the temptation might be to go out way too fast.
negative split ned wrote:
youtube research project - please go find the top ten or so fastest 800m races ever ran and let us know how many of them were a negative split.
but what do i know. you know bolt should just run the 800...start of running 14s 100s and by the last 2 or so be blazing sub10s! should work based on your negative split strategy, right? early pace would be super-easy.
Wise Strategy wrote:If you don't think running a quality 800 on negative splits is a sound and realistic strategy, then you are clearly confusing what is possible physiologically with what is possible psychologically. Anyone mocking this is the same type of loser who says "we are doing it this way just because that's the way it's always been done".
Did you expect JW to get a top 10 time? We were talking about an elite 400 runner (used to be) breaking 1:50.
Big difference.
I love people who bring up the Bolt argument- You clearly know nothing about 800 physiology.
The 200 and 400 actually favor heavy framed runners. Speed endurance is the name of the game, not acceleration.
