Here are the cartoons that got 12 innocent people at Charlie Hebdo slaughtered

publishing the cartoons as a weapon isn't right either - we can all be decent people here. We, normal people, don't have to go out of our way to insult muslims, 99.9% of whom will never touch a weapon.

free speech is a delicate thing - if you use it as a weapon, it can be taken away or used against you. Civil society depends on finding a balance between free speech and decency.

I would just put the 'je suis charlie' splash page up.

http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article4935480.ece/alternates/s2197/Je-suis-Charlie.jpg

agip wrote:

publishing the cartoons as a weapon isn't right either - we can all be decent people here. We, normal people, don't have to go out of our way to insult muslims, 99.9% of whom will never touch a weapon.

free speech is a delicate thing - if you use it as a weapon, it can be taken away or used against you. Civil society depends on finding a balance between free speech and decency.

I would just put the 'je suis charlie' splash page up.

http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article4935480.ece/alternates/s2197/Je-suis-Charlie.jpg

You too are part of the problem. See my above post in response to Flagpole.

How about this? http://www.publiusforum.com/images/charliehebdomuhammedcartoonssept_large.jpg

agip wrote:

publishing the cartoons as a weapon isn't right either - we can all be decent people here. We, normal people, don't have to go out of our way to insult muslims, 99.9% of whom will never touch a weapon.

free speech is a delicate thing - if you use it as a weapon, it can be taken away or used against you. Civil society depends on finding a balance between free speech and decency.

I would just put the 'je suis charlie' splash page up.

http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article4935480.ece/alternates/s2197/Je-suis-Charlie.jpg

Just because someone is offended by satire of a belief they hold does not mean others should censor themselves so that they don't offend these people.

It is their issue if they can't deal with satire.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with satirizing an idea.

finisher medal wrote:

Tyrannosaurus Rexing, you are stupid beyond words. Thank god you are not running this website.

Weldon and Robert, I say post the pictures. It is past time we stood up to these murderous, disgusting pieces of sh!t that terrorize America. No more censorship bullsh!t, no more bending over backwards so that fanatical Muslims don't get their "feelings" hurt. It's absolutely insane that we're supposed to "tolerate" murder and torture.

I will speak my mind about this issue, and I suggest you do as well. Please, do NOT listen to any liberal who says "but but but they might get their feelings hurt if you post the pictures!" Do it and be proud you are fighting back against absolute evil.

But it's easy for us to say the brojos should do it. They would be the one's who might be putting their lives in danger. I agree that nobody should give a shit about hurting their feelings though.

Nothing is above reproach wrote:

agip wrote:

publishing the cartoons as a weapon isn't right either - we can all be decent people here. We, normal people, don't have to go out of our way to insult muslims, 99.9% of whom will never touch a weapon.

free speech is a delicate thing - if you use it as a weapon, it can be taken away or used against you. Civil society depends on finding a balance between free speech and decency.

I would just put the 'je suis charlie' splash page up.

http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article4935480.ece/alternates/s2197/Je-suis-Charlie.jpg

You too are part of the problem. See my above post in response to Flagpole.

Indeed. Supporting free speech unless it hurts someone's feelings isn't really supporting free speech.

Islam is a set of ideas, and it shouldn't be exempt from the rules of free expression. Anything less than claiming, unequivocally, the right to criticize, satirize, and ridicule is appeasement, and it provides cover to extremists who would deny us that right by credible threats of force. To paraphrase Sam Harris, moderates provide the shade under which extremists luxuriate.

Not if everyone on the support thread pledged to post the image on fb or google

I miss Bill Eamick wrote:

Nothing is above reproach wrote:

You too are part of the problem. See my above post in response to Flagpole.

Indeed. Supporting free speech unless it hurts someone's feelings isn't really supporting free speech.

Islam is a set of ideas, and it shouldn't be exempt from the rules of free expression. Anything less than claiming, unequivocally, the right to criticize, satirize, and ridicule is appeasement, and it provides cover to extremists who would deny us that right by credible threats of force. To paraphrase Sam Harris, moderates provide the shade under which extremists luxuriate.

Interesting point. Very similar to Goldwater's "Moderation in the pursuit of justice is not virtue, extremism in the defense of liberty in no vice"

llort_vbo wrote:

I miss Bill Eamick wrote:

Indeed. Supporting free speech unless it hurts someone's feelings isn't really supporting free speech.

Islam is a set of ideas, and it shouldn't be exempt from the rules of free expression. Anything less than claiming, unequivocally, the right to criticize, satirize, and ridicule is appeasement, and it provides cover to extremists who would deny us that right by credible threats of force. To paraphrase Sam Harris, moderates provide the shade under which extremists luxuriate.

Interesting point. Very similar to Goldwater's "Moderation in the pursuit of justice is not virtue, extremism in the defense of liberty in no vice"

no. defending the right to free speech is different than deliberately offending people. They just aren't the same thing. Yes, I would fight for the RIGHT to put the cartoons on my website, but I'm not going to do it because decency is an important trait.

But if someone wants to publish the cartoons - sure, he or she has the right, and if someone takes away that right, I will protest.

You point out that speech is not free if you don't offend - well, yes - obvi this is a very delicate and tricky thing - ensuring an open society without us all being at each others' throats. Very hard.

in short.

I can defend the laws of this country regarding free speech without deliberately offending several billion people.

Pringles wrote:

They are a bunch of cartoons by immature men who thought they were on a crusade of higher journalism. Get over themselves. Google search some of the images besides the cover posted by wejo. They're f-king offensive. Very offensive. The one with Muhammad being bent over with his posterior in the air like some porn actress. Did they f-king think this was going to sit well with Muslims? What value did this have? They just embarrassed themselves. These people are not journalists. They were basically doing this for shits and giggles which I find patently offensive.

Yes, the cartoons may well be immature, devoid of intellectual content and offensive not just to Muslims but to anyone with any taste at all.

[b}BUT

Re-publishing them and/or providing links to them is not in any way a comment on the cartoons themselves. It is purely a comment on the abominable act committed by those who killed.

Firstly, I am not even sure "disanalogy" (or disanology as you spelled it) is a word.

Second, analogies are comparisons of things similar "in some way" or "in significant respects." they are not exactly the same. My analogy is fine. If you want to substitute insulting all black people when you know the school shooter in question is black and your insults will get back to him, or instead of insulting the individual, you insult his family (not him), then make the edit. The analogy still stands, and while said individuals don't deserve you tiptoeing around their feelings, it's up to you whether or not you want to risk the fall out for the sake of "free speech" or "speaking your mind".

I am all for blasphemy. But I am picking my battles and deciding which ones to risk my life for.

In general I'm not for saying/printing things that will offend others but in this case I urge everyone to publish these cartoons. Free speech MUST rule.

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

Firstly, I am not even sure "disanalogy" (or disanology as you spelled it) is a word.

Yes, disanalogy is a word.

Yes, I sometimes make spelling mistakes on the internet.

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

Second, analogies are comparisons of things similar "in some way" or "in significant respects." they are not exactly the same. My analogy is fine.

And one way of refuting an argument by analogy, which you attempted to make, is to point out a relevant disanalogy.

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

If you want to substitute insulting all black people when you know the school shooter in question is black and your insults will get back to him, or instead of insulting the individual, you insult his family (not him), then make the edit. The analogy still stands

You're conflating insulting an individual, or a group of people (your example) with criticizing an idea (the satire of islam drawn by the cartoonists). The difference is relevant.

Yours is not an analogous example.

Sorry agip but you are just wrong on this one. Your argument against publishing the cartoons is perfectly reasonable AS AN ARGUMENT AGAINST ORIGINALLY PUBLISHING THEM. At that time the question was one of taste, value added, etc. and it can very reasonably be argued that the cartoons in question had very little to offer in any dimension.

But, at this time the question is no longer one of taste, value added, etc. It is about making it 100% clear that we will not EVER back down to acts of terror. As such it is very clear that these should be published as widely as is practical.

RacistX wrote:

In general I'm not for saying/printing things that will offend others but in this case I urge everyone to publish these cartoons. Free speech MUST rule.

Ok, then if you feel so strongly, this what I "URGE" you to do:

tomorrow, start a website/blog (very easy to do). just print all the offensive cartoons about mohammed. Make sure, to show your REAL commitment and courage to "free speech", to print your home address.

or, make up a t-shirt with an one of the cartoons in question and walk around neighborhoods in europe or the middle east where radical muslims live. Do this continually. It will be a courageous stand.

Or are you a coward?

Tyrannosaurus Rex (or Rexing or whatever anonymous name you use),You've got MAJOR issues and are mentally unbalanced, and that's on a good day.First, unless you are a moderator, how would you know who posts what under what name? Second, put your money where your BIG mouth is you lowly coward who hinds behind a keyboard. Wejo and Rojo, you've got the power. Please shut this coward up and check my IP. I posted once.I'll bet any amount of money against "butt boy t-rex" that I posted once on this thread, ONCE. That was the post that t-rex, butt boy, responded to.Please do me a huge favor and post the truth so nutjob can be officially outed. I assume he's a moderator with all of his posts and he'll just delete this because he'll look like an A$$. And for the record t-boy, you'll be found out one day for the coward that you are, but in the meantime, feel free to look me up coward and we'll see what you're made of...certified wimp:) LOL! LOL! LOL!

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

the word wrote:

Ahh...hey there big fella. They make fun of our beliefs, they burn out flag, what's the difference? Sorry, you're messed up pal. Wejo (or Rojo) has got it right. Why be a wimp, stand up dammit!

Says the coward who can't even stick to ONE anonymous name on a running message board for fear having to be accountable for the content of his posts! LOL!

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

RacistX wrote:

In general I'm not for saying/printing things that will offend others but in this case I urge everyone to publish these cartoons. Free speech MUST rule.

Ok, then if you feel so strongly, this what I "URGE" you to do:

tomorrow, start a website/blog (very easy to do). just print all the offensive cartoons about mohammed. Make sure, to show your REAL commitment and courage to "free speech", to print your home address.

or, make up a t-shirt with an one of the cartoons in question and walk around neighborhoods in europe or the middle east where radical muslims live. Do this continually. It will be a courageous stand.

Or are you a coward?

False dichotomy.

Frank N Sense wrote:

. It is about making it 100% clear that we will not EVER back down to acts of terror. As such it is very clear that these should be published as widely as is practical.

Yes, you are very courageous. lol.

C'mon dude, you won't even stick to one anonymous name on here. You seriously don't the see disconnect between urging others to be courageous and take a stand that could risk their lives and hiding behind continually changing names?

How is it that Trey Parker and Matt Stone are alive?