Seriously, what do you think of adults that don't have a 4-year degree (at least)?

Bad Wigins wrote:

fcdididi wrote:

How is it the government's fault that college costs so much?

unlimited loan guarantees.

Kids can pay for college with money they might have someday instead of money they actually have. Naturally they are willing to pay more with IOU's than with real money, so colleges charge more.

If it weren't for government loan guarantees, the student money supply would dry up, demand for higher education would crash, and most universities would go bankrupt. The UC system might survive because it is well-supported by taxes on the sensible grounds that it benefits everyone in the state.

Every snob academician should chew on the fact that they'd be out of a job if people had to pay them real money instead of money from the future. That's what they're really worth.

You apparently don't realize that almost all professors get paid out of the grant money they bring in. Their salaries don't come from student tuition.

Barakus Obama wrote:

You're a moron for bringing up 3 successfulle person out of thousand without succes who tried the same, all with brilliant minds. Yeah, everybody should start their own company....ehh

Larry Ellison, Michael Dell, Paul Allen, Marc Rich, Ralph Lauren, Kirk Kerkorian.

Sir Richard Branson ($4.6 billion) and Lord (Alan) Sugar ($1.14 billion) dropped out of school at 16.

Historically, Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, Isaac Netwon, Alexander Graham Bell, the Wright Brothers, Michael Faraday, William Herschel, Gregor Mendel (genetics) and Leonardo Da Vinci.

To xnet, how much do you make? How much debt are you in?

I graduated at 20. I make 200K+ and have never been in any debt (mortgage excepted).

Not everyone has deadbeat parents. Some people can actually afford superior educations.

Tech Guy wrote:

Barakus Obama wrote:

You're a moron for bringing up 3 successfulle person out of thousand without succes who tried the same, all with brilliant minds. Yeah, everybody should start their own company....ehh

Larry Ellison, Michael Dell, Paul Allen, Marc Rich, Ralph Lauren, Kirk Kerkorian.

Sir Richard Branson ($4.6 billion) and Lord (Alan) Sugar ($1.14 billion) dropped out of school at 16.

Historically, Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, Isaac Netwon, Alexander Graham Bell, the Wright Brothers, Michael Faraday, William Herschel, Gregor Mendel (genetics) and Leonardo Da Vinci.

To xnet, how much do you make? How much debt are you in?

I graduated at 20. I make 200K+ and have never been in any debt (mortgage excepted).

Oh wow...you brought up a few more outliers. They're totally representative of what normal people should expect when planning their futures.

ivy league grad wrote:

Not everyone has deadbeat parents. Some people can actually afford superior educations.

You're trolling too hard man

Losers like Bill Gates

Seriously, what do you think of ignorant little punk a$$ kids who grew up middle class and are trapped in their pitiful little world view and can't escape it?

Holy f*cking sh*t. How many more times is someone going to bring up clear outliers as if they prove some kind of point? It is like saying that moustaches are bad because Hitler had one.

I don't generally ask them if they have a 4 year college degree or any kind of degree.

Anyway, over here (England) almost all degrees are 3 years.

There are a lot of people doing virtually useless degrees then having no idea what to do afterwards.

what is going on? wrote:

Holy f*cking sh*t. How many more times is someone going to bring up clear outliers as if they prove some kind of point? It is like saying that moustaches are bad because Hitler had one.

It isn't any more misleading than universities constantly pointing towards studies that "show" that getting a degree leads to higher earning potential. While that may be true for a sought after degree such as in engineering, the claim doesn't hold water for many other degree programs.

Universities actively select students who are above average in intelligence, possess strong work ethics/drive and often come from middle or upper-class families with money and connections. If you were to take two groups with all of the above attributes, place one in a trades apprenticeship program and have the other go to university and earn a B.A., that would be a more meaningful study. My bet is that the trades group would vastly out-earn the university group in total career earnings. Even if somehow the university group did earn more, most of the earnings would come at the tail-end of their careers, whereas the trades group would earn a good living from the start. Since we're assuming that these tradespeople are intelligent and ambitious, they'd be investing most of their early earnings, while the university group is struggling to get their careers started and pay back debt.

I know a guy who dropped out of university after his first year and entered an apprenticeship program as a heavy machinery mechanic for the oil sands. Within two years, he was making over 200K/year. He's far from being an outlier. There are a lot of great reasons for going to university but money isn't one of them.

I don't care how smart and ambitious someone is--he is unlikely to get his foot in the door in most white collar professions without a degree. Unless you think that everyone should move to Alaska to become an oilman, college degrees (even in the liberal arts) absolutely make financial sense for many people.

I had sex with a woman last night (and this morning) without a four year degree. The lack of education didn't affect her performance in bed. She seemed bright enough. I probably didn't think as much of her as I did the PhD I had sex with on Friday night. And my 25K this afternoon was a nice run.

"Seriously, what do you think of adults that don't have a 4-year degree (at least)?"

In all seriousness, I don't seem to think about people in those terms at all. I don't seem to have an opinion.

Depends on age. Tons of people made a great living without a four year degree back in the day. Hell, my brother is a high school drop out and he's done fine (he's 47). Started as a grocery bagger and worked his way up to store manager. At one point you could do that, college degree not required. Times have changed, though.

luv2run wrote:

Losers like Bill Gates

+1

Have not readthread but in the early 1960s something like 15-17% of HS graduates went on to 'higher education'. Then Vietnam draft made college a haven and the GI bill brought many who served back with a paid college education ahead of them.

So age of the non-degree holders is an important tool in evaluation their choice of not going to a degree.

At the 12 year mark in my career I was hired to head a consultant team in one of my industries highest profile projects. I was the only member of the team who did not have a degree and half the teammembers had more time in the industry.

I'm sure you can look at any number of industries and find a host of highly paid well respected and aggressively recruited people who do not have degrees. Plus the group of "company builders" those folks who built companies that lead their industry have, even in todays everyone goes to college era, a high % of none grads at the helm.

Buying the book just because it has a sheepskin cover often leads to a story with no substance..

what is going on? wrote:

I don't care how smart and ambitious someone is--he is unlikely to get his foot in the door in most white collar professions without a degree. Unless you think that everyone should move to Alaska to become an oilman, college degrees (even in the liberal arts) absolutely make financial sense for many people.

I certainly don't think that everybody should go into the trades, I'm just pointing out that it's a viable option and probably easier to make a lot of money unless you're very well-connected or extremely bright. Right now, there is a shortage of workers in a lot of trades, which is driving up salaries while there is an excess glut of recent college graduates who are often willing to work for free or as temps. If universities started to produce fewer graduates, jobs that require a degree would pay better and recent graduates would be more in demand. At the moment though, everybody and their dog seems to be going to university and, if they can't find a job upon graduation, they go back for a Masters. If this trend continues, the laws of supply and demand aren't going to favor graduates.

As another example of the money available in the trades, I painted houses for a couple of Summers while in university with the company Student Works, which helps college students run their own painting franchises. At the time, the average Summer earnings for a student manager was > $30,000 for 4 months. The two managers I worked for both pocketed over 40k and one girl, who I did a single job for, painting a ski lodge, earned over 120k.

If you can make that kind of money as a college student running a painting franchise, think about how much the full-time plumbers and electricians are making. Once you make a name for your business and hire a couple of crews, there's no real need for you to ever get your hands dirty again if you don't want to. You simply hire a foreman to look after the crews and do estimates while you handle the business end of things and rake in the dough.

3/10, mostly because you got a 4 pager in just 2 days.

There is no guarantee that you will be successful with a college degree, but it sure does open a lot of doors. My office employs about 80 FT workers; only the maintenance workers and maybe an admin or two lack a college degree.

Personally, I went for a Ph.D. because I thought it would land me a better job--no necessarily higher paying but more control over my destiny.

Well my boss just as a BS and he's always the smartest guy in the room, and no one leaves that room without being reminded of that.

I think the cost of education has gotten out of hand, and that the expense of high end private or out of state public schools is ridiculous.

I also think that the majority of Letsrunners are insecure little creeps hiding out in mom's basement. Not that there is any logical connection there; just an observation.

Only if they are a major government official without a compelling reason. Anything such as a President or Governor.