Guess who is the first American 1500m runner with the "A"?

here here wrote:

No. Russell Brown cannot jump ahead of Lear because Lear already has the B and Lear finished ahead of Brown at Nationals.

If Brown runs 3:24.80 it doesn't matter. He cannot chase times after the Nationals, only the top 4 at nationals can improve their lot.

At the conclusion of USATF if you only listed athletes that had an A or B standard, in the order they finished, you would get:

1) Centro

2) Lomong

3) Leer

4) Brown

So Brown was among the top 4 at USATF with a standard. He should be able to chase.

Now if you only include actual places then Leer was 5th, therefore not in the top 4 and cannot chase.

I don't see how Leer could chase and Torrence and Brown cannot.

Forget about who "can" chase, who had the B at the trials, etc.

On July 20th, It'll be the top 3 guys (in their order at USAs) with the A or top 2 with the A and Centro if he doesn't get it.

Hope this doesn't get deleted.

Returning to the OP's point, congratulations to Torrence on a new PR (and those spike wounds were beauties!).

* wrote:

History has shown us they will fill the field any way they can.

Like Ritz in 2004 getting last in the 10,000 and going or Grant Robison not making the 1500 final at the Trials but being named to the Olympic team.

These situations were allowed under the old rules, and would not be allowed under the rules in place today. Ritz got in in 2004 because, I believe, they took anyone who ran the 10 at trails and had the A. So he limped, hurt, around the track, because he was guaranteed an Olympic spot as long as he finished. That wouldn't be allowed today...You can debate whether or that that's a good change. US distance is better than it was in 2004, so maybe what was crutch that was good for the sport isn't needed now.

have not read the whole thread to see if this has been quoted but the rule as published on the usatf siteThe way I read it the only athletes allowed to move up from a Nationals finish lower than top 4 is if they had the applicable standard at the close of the Nationals-23 june-.http://www.usatf.org/Events---Calend...Selection.aspx Other Qualification: 1. If any of the top four (4) rank order finishers has not achieved the applicable IAAF standard from the beginning of the applicable IAAF qualifying period through the completion of their respective events at the National Championships, but achieves the needed IAAF Standard on or before July 20, 2013, such athlete(s) must provide adequate evidence of his or her qualifying performance in order for that performance to result in qualification for the team. Results information must be received by USATF by said deadline at the following e-mail address: sandy.snow@usatf.org2.If after July 20, 2013, there remain places on the USATF team or alternate positions not filled by athletes among the top four (4) rank order finishers, USATF may, in its discretion, in rank order of finish, enter athletes and/or designate athletes as alternates based on their having achieved the applicable IAAF Standard at or prior to the National Championships.3. Subject to the foregoing criteria, in any event(s) in which there are no “A” Standard qualifiers, USATF will enter no more than two (2) athletes who have achieved the “B” standard in that event during the applicable qualifying period (through July 20, 2013, for the top four (4) finishers at the Championships and through the conclusion of the athletes’ respective events at the National Championships for others). In that situation, only one (1) “B” Standard qualified athlete will be allowed to travel and compete with the team and an additional “B” Standard qualifier may serve as an alternate.4. If no athletes achieve at least the IAAF “B” standard in a given event during the qualifying period, USATF will enter no athletes in that event, unless an athlete is exempt from qualifying because he or she is the reigning World Champion or Diamond League Winner.5. In each event, the rank order of the finish at the 2013 USA Track & Field Championships shall determine whether an athlete competes or is designated an alternate at the World Championships.NO he can not go (but it's USATF and they have been known to change their minds in the past)

US 1500m wrote:

Torrence in 3:34.19 at Nancy.

Is he a possible for the Moscow team as well?

"If after July 20, 2013, there remain places on the USATF team or alternate positions not filled by athletes among the top four (4) rank order finishers, USATF may, in its discretion, in rank order of finish, enter athletes and/or designate athletes as alternates based on their having achieved the applicable IAAF Standard at or prior to the National Championships."

So, clearly they can get three A's from the total field or even out of the field (e.g. Rupp) if they're lacking sufficient A/B qualifiers. Another reason for taking only the top four (w/one alternate) aside from emphasizing the national championships is that it helps those who do well in rounds, and there will be one extra round at world's. However, maybe Torrence didn't time his peak right and maybe he's better than most. But Russell Brown said during the champs that many in the field could easily get the standard in Europe and here we have an also ran in the field doing just that. Guys that can close in 51, like Elliott, and others, should be able to run sub 3:35 in Europe. Nice conditions now in Berlin, where I am, so probably in Paris as well. I was in Lisbon last week when it was in the 90s but even there it had cooled down by Tuesday morning. My bet is that there will be many more A's by Americans at this distance, but if Lomong is injured, I'm not sure that he will be one of them. Manzano just ran 1:46, so he should get his 3:35/4, though he's not in pr shape seemingly, as he's run 1:44.5 or so before.

Uh-oh. I'm going to change my mind. First read this paragraph from the USATF standards

Now read this paragraph. This explicitly says that a runner outside the top four (Centro, Manzano, Lomong, Elliot) at nationals CAN be considered for the team from races up to July 20 IF one of the top 4 from Nationals doesn't achieve a qualifying mark.

Since neither Manzano nor Elliot has a qualifying mark then Torrance can still get in.

US 1500m wrote:

Other Qualification: 1. If any of the top four (4) rank order finishers has not achieved the applicable IAAF standard from the beginning of the applicable IAAF qualifying period through the completion of their respective events at the National Championships, but achieves the needed IAAF Standard on or before July 20, 2013, such athlete(s) must provide adequate evidence of his or her qualifying performance in order for that performance to result in qualification for the team. Results information must be received by USATF by said deadline at the following e-mail address:

Nevermind, I didn't read that correctly. What wineturtle and others have said before remains the same, only the Top 4 at nationals can chase the qualifying standards. Torrance can't get in.

jjjjjjjjj wrote:

"If after July 20, 2013, there remain places on the USATF team or alternate positions not filled by athletes among the top four (4) rank order finishers, USATF may, in its discretion, in rank order of finish, enter athletes and/or designate athletes as alternates based on their having achieved the applicable IAAF Standard at or prior to the National Championships."

So, clearly they can get three A's from the total field or even out of the field (e.g. Rupp) if they're lacking sufficient A/B qualifiers.

in rank order of finish,

Read that. Since Rupp did not compete at Nationals in the 1500, he doesn't have a rank order of finish, and cannot be considered for the 1500 team.

Torrance was not top four nor did he have the standard at the close of the Nationals so the

Qualifications 1 If any of the top four 4-----

part seems to indicate the rule is for the top four finishers and not for someone ranked lower that fourth in order of finish.

Wineturtle, you should have read my next post. I agree with you.

malmo wrote:

~ wrote:

Nice breakdown man. That stuff is crazy confusing to figure out.

Thats scary that you think its difficult. It's simple.

You're so smart malmo

/sarcasm

Zimmmerman is innocent wrote:

Wineturtle, you should have read my next post. I agree with you.

Nevermind, I didn't read that correctly. What wineturtle and others have said before remains the same, only the Top 4 at nationals can chase the qualifying standards. Torrance can't get in.

[/quote]

sorry I had the reply going before you posted your correction- had to stepaway from the computer for a moment and continued when I got back not knowing you had responded-

BUT in the end it does boil down to USATF deciding what to do in case the top four do not shake out to at minimum AAB no matter what their rules say. There is a mountain of paperwork involved it submitting team papers and a lot of what USATF will do in case we do not have AAB minimum revolves around getting the "replacement athlete(s)" paperwork done in a timely manner.

BUT BUT these guys should get the Qs they need and all these 'what if' things most likely will not be needed.

Why is centro a lock? Does he have the B?

Lomong and Manzano have the A now. I could be wrong, but I don't remember Centro running sub 3:37 this year.

Centro ran 3:36.65 indoors this year en route to his 3:51 mile.

He's in.

If he doesn't run again until after Jul 20 does that mean Elliot needs an A or there is no alternate?

Otherwise, Torrence would be the alternate right now as the highest finishing A runner outside of the top 3.

If Centtro does get A somehow in the next two weeks and nothing else changes, Leer would be in line to be the alternate.

As of right now only an A can be the alternate. The first A in order of finish at nationals. If Centro gets an A then Elliot can be the alternate with a B.

* wrote:

Centro ran 3:36.65 indoors this year en route to his 3:51 mile.

He's in.

If he doesn't run again until after Jul 20 does that mean Elliot needs an A or there is no alternate?

Otherwise, Torrence would be the alternate right now as the highest finishing A runner outside of the top 3.

If Centtro does get A somehow in the next two weeks and nothing else changes, Leer would be in line to be the alternate.

Right now Elliot needs an A or there is no alternate. If Centro gets the A then Elliot needs a B.