Poll: How old are Cheserek and Futsum?

Zeinasefutsum wrote:

I have met and been around Futsum many times. He acts and looks like a normal high schooler. I have also watched him since middle school when he was an "average" runner. He got beat by a lot of white kids so its not like he was 15 or 16 when he was in middle school. You can see a noticable maturity from his freshman year to now just like you would see in all teenagers. I would say he is 18-19 at the oldest...normal for H.S. He is an all around good kid and a smart competitor.

I cant speak for Cheserek though...

Complete bull-s-h-i-t. No one who's seen either Futsum or Cheserek in person thinks they're younger than 20. The usual PC troll garbage.

ThatEqualGuy wrote:

If they're foreign and especially from Africa; they wait until they're extremely good and then they're ALWAYS "17".

True. Look at Ethiopia's star "16" year old 800 meter man who himself says is 25, but officials list him as 16. lol Even ol' Mr. Politically Correct Coward Hersh at TafNews has mentioned this.

I've seen Cheserek in person and I think he's easily under 20. I have not seen Futsum. Now, that kid from the Northeast with the 'stache about 1 foot long I'm not so sure about

PC liars all wrote:

Zeinasefutsum wrote:

I have met and been around Futsum many times. He acts and looks like a normal high schooler. I have also watched him since middle school when he was an "average" runner. He got beat by a lot of white kids so its not like he was 15 or 16 when he was in middle school. You can see a noticable maturity from his freshman year to now just like you would see in all teenagers. I would say he is 18-19 at the oldest...normal for H.S. He is an all around good kid and a smart competitor.

I cant speak for Cheserek though...

Complete bull-s-h-i-t. No one who's seen either Futsum or Cheserek in person thinks they're younger than 20. The usual PC troll garbage.

That is because they are black, and whites generally can't even tell blacks apart.

LR does not hate foreigners. LR users hate black people.

Abby Leonardi?

It is amazing to me that Reina and Davis ran 14:34 nd 14:38 but every kid NOT born here is "Old"?

Why? German ran 8:34 at 17 , Webb 3:53, neither of these guys have approached those marks and no one suspected them of being old.

Not Buying It... wrote:

If they are not citizens, they have no place in this race (in my opinion). It's meant to be the US HS Cross Country championship.

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It is NOT a US High School Championship...if it were the NFHS would shut it down. Like NXN, they do not represent a high school and Foot Locker and Nike can not proclaim the events as high school related in any term without every athlete being banned.

runstrong runtall wrote:

Kenyans and Ethiopians are always 2 to 4 years older

Don't laugh. The age fraud problem is endemic in youth sports in African countries. The degree of age fraud in African youth sports became so blatant that in the African youth soccer federation championships an MRI-based, scientific age detection evaluation was required to verify the real age of youth athletes. Mysteriously, up to half the players on some rosters failed to appear for these championship matches! The MRI is based on known growth plate patterns that have perfect correlations with chronological age.

As a separate matter, even a ONE YEAR AGE ADVANTAGE in men's youth sports is a material advantage, no less a two or more year advantage. And, age fraud is problematic in college level sports, too, where, at least in distance running, the typical runner doesn't reach a peak until the early twenties.

Serious response only, please. Too often, the comments I have seen in this thread are based on fallacious reasoning, if any reasoning whatsoever, emotional outbursts, etc.

Time to address this issue that is turning our amateur sports scene, both high school and college, here in the U.S. into a complete charade.

Age fraud isn't a problem in college sports, since age isn't a factor at all in eligibility. You could call yourself 12 or 65 and it wouldn't mean a thing as long as you haven't used up 4 seasons of eligibility.

Freelove: Actually Age is a factor at Division 1. Here is the rule: "In Division I only, if a student-athlete has participated as an individual or as a team representative in organized sports competition, that kind of participation during each 12-month period after his/her 21st birthday and prior to initial full-time collegiate enrollment will count as one year of varsity competition in that sport. Any participation in organized competition during time spent in the U.S. armed services will be excepted." Therefore a 25 year old who has been running for 4 years in competition as a "junior" athlete would not be elgible to run in Division 1 competition.

Truth Sayer wrote:

Good kids but the American born kids are scared of them. I would think that is a regression for US distance running development at the youth level.

You say kids need to stop being lazy and train harder to beat the Africans. I think what will and is happening is kids giving up on the sport instead because of the Africans. Much like Lukas. "What is the point in trying I will never beat that Kenyan? Let me focus on something I have a shot at like Triathlons or Soccer. No crazy talented Kenyans there."

Racist or not. This is undermining US youth development. I don't what, if anything, can be done but within a few years we will regress back to the 1990s-style African ass-kicking.

First of all as has been mentioned is that if anything youth distance running has been getting better (go check how many finalists we had in the distance events at WJ and WY this year)

Secondly to suggest there is "easier" comp. on the world level in soccer is just plain stupid - yeah there are not many Kenyans, you just have about 20 other countries that have better youth programs then the US to contend with. As for tri's, we do not do much better then distance running on the world level if at all. Besides there are a whole lot of other things preventing kids from taking up tri's - and it starts with the significant amount of money to do so.

runstrong runtall is right!

I trained in Kenya last winter and helped one of my training partners get a birth-certificate and passport while I was there. His eldest brother prepared the documents and came back from Iten with a birth-certificate making him 17. He had told me that he was 18, so I was concerned. After questioning his other family members, I determined his correct birth date (making him 18) and demanded that we go back to Iten to have it corrected. They reluctantly agreed (after I told them he wouldn't be able to accept prize-money unless he was 18 ;) The situation ended up almost getting us arrested, and without bribery, he would have been stuck with a false birth-certificate and no hope of getting a passport.

Lying about age is the norm for African athletes, and is usually much more extreme than the example above. Ask a Kenyan how old Geb is, they'll give you a number anywhere between 40 and 50. Rudisha? Over 30. I think they're exaggerating, but you get the point.

I don't like the situation because it discourage athletes from other parts of the world. From the outside, it looks like these young guys just run for a couple months and then win a World Junior Medal. In reality, they train HARD for several years, and when they're ready, get false documents saying they're 17 and dominate the junior ranks.

However, Cheserek is NOT an example of this. I'm talking about the "18 year-olds" that are running 12:50 for 5K track and winning world junior cross. I would guess that Cheserek is 18. If he's not, I can assure you that there are hundreds of Kenyans that are under 18 and could have dominated Footlocker.

According to the DOB provided by the Youth Club Nationals site, Futsum is currently 19, or will turn 19 before graduating and entering college

The typical US high schooler turns sometime during his/her senior year of high school. Don't even TRY to argue this point, because it's officially verified in 47 US states. Those idiotic people complaining that they graduated when they were 17 years old and 4 months or whatnot simply graduated early and are complaining that everyone else isn't like them.

Since the typical US high schooler will be at least 18 before his/her freshman year of college, and Futsum will be at least 19 before his/her freshman year of college, Futsum is approximately 1 year old for his level of competition.

To put it simply, he's like Verzbicas, except he didn't fix the age problem by graduating early.

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What you've said here makes no logical sense whatsoever! Futsum is currently 18 and will turn 19 before the end of this year! He was born in 1992 and is currently 18 and will turn 19 in late December of 2011! However, in the spring or indoors, I do think he should not be eligible to compete against other high schoolers who are currently 18 or younger.

Tommy2Nuttz wrote:

Lastly, this is amateur running...do you really think anyone cares?

Looks like lots of people care, ya douche.

Hey you racists, cheserek and futsum were way off the course record set years ago. They were 7 and 6 seconds, respectively, faster than LV was last year. But you didn't say anything about LV who dominated his competition, while you're still giving futsum and cheserek shit. Grow the f up please.

This thread was originally about age, but I've seen a few comments regarding kids from other countries participating, so I'll give my thoughts.

While it is completely fair to any individual as long as they fulfill all the prerequisites of age and citizenship, I do understand the annoyance of it all. When you get third place and are beaten by two foreigners, you are, yes, beaten by two Americans, but you aren't beaten by people who were born and raised in America. You lost to a Kenyan-American, not an American.

It has been tradition for high schoolers to enjoy the less stiff competition on the national stage before progressing to tougher college competition that is interjected with a multitude of foreign athletes, then progress to global competitive levels where the majority are foreign.

When the competition is so stiff at such a young age that you can't enjoy it, it tends not to be fun. And like a previous post said, this is freaking high school cross country, so who cares about making the competition tough and ripening an athlete? They will get plenty of foreign competition in college, so let them have their fun when it isn't as significant.

It is certainly completely fair for Edward and Futsum to compete, and congratulations to their 1-2 finish, but I can definitely see the annoyance that is portrayed by two dominating individuals that aren't from here.

And if the american reina had crushed these american boys, it would not be a problem, right? Even though he would have been another 15 seconds faster?

How about the other African kid in the race? Andrew Gardner. He's Ethiopian. Isn't anyone going to complain about him? Poor kid is going to get a complex because he's not being hated on by you guys!

As I posted in another such thread, I have had the exact same experience with Kenyan/Ethiopian athletes.Who can blame them for doing this? It gives an older (In my experience 22-30 y.o.) athlete, with no hope of making it big against peer-level competition, a chance to make a splash, have their education paid for, and get some money. Age cheating is the way out of extreme poverty. Usually they only resort to this once they realize they are not going to make their national team. How do we distinguish these people from legitimate high school aged Africans who come here? I don't have a good solution. Most 15+ East Africans who run do NOT have a birth certificate. They make up a birthdate at the passport office. I would not want to penalize them for coming from somewhere without a birth certificate, but age is a very slippery concept in rural areas like Iten and Bekoji. African runners, in the face of economic stagnation and a total lack of athletic scholarships in their home countries, run for local clubs and try to edge their way to the top. When they aren't at a world class level, they are encouraged to compete as juniors. If this was my way out, I'd probably take it too. Surely we (globally) can think of some better system for talented runners than amatuer junior competition. This dilemma is emblematic of the lack of opportunities outside the small fraction of elite competitors, for athletes in our sport.