hicham's splits from t&f news :
29.9
29.9
29.5
28.9
29.8 - 2'28.0
29.1
29.3
28.6
29.1 (pacer gone after this one)
29.6 - 2'25.7 !!! ( this km killed him ) - 4'53.7 total
30.4
30.4
30.0
29.4
29.1 - 2'29.3 - total 7'23.0
the initial km wasn't as slow as i remember & actually 7'24 pace, but he sensed it & urged the wabbit on, who died 200m before his contracted 2k distance ( the 2km split was only a coupla tenths slower than komen ran )
he never recovered from this 2nd km for the last km
2009 WC 10k was impressive. Really fun race to watch as well. 13:40 at the half, Bekele wins in 26:46. Tadesse really laid down the hammer and absolutely destroyed the field.
This thread was great until ventolin took it over. Anyways, I would vouch for that 2003 WC 10k. The two best 10k racers of all-time going head-to-head.
very surprising result for hicham
his splits evened out ->7'22.0
tentative conclusion is he woudn't have gone much faster than the actual 7'23.0 he ran that day in a perfectly paced race, which is an eye-opener !
does indicate morceli's run was intrinsically better by nearly 2s despite being 2s slower !
vivalarepublica wrote:
This thread was great until ventolin took it over. Anyways, I would vouch for that 2003 WC 10k. The two best 10k racers of all-time going head-to-head.
Don't you understand. Ventolin has a magical calculator AND he has WATCHED a lot of races on TV. Some of them even on SATELLITE TV!!!
Mr. Obvious wrote:AND he has WATCHED a lot of races on TV. Some of them even on SATELLITE TV!!!
a far far better experience than just reading about them which appears your situation...
ventolin^3 wrote:
Mr. Obvious wrote:AND he has WATCHED a lot of races on TV. Some of them even on SATELLITE TV!!!a far far better experience than just reading about them which appears your situation...
Why do you think you know anything about my situation? I am just laughing at you because you seem to think that watching races on TV makes you some sort of expert and entitled to call anybody who disagrees with you an imbecile and a moron. Because you have WATCHED a lot of races on TV!!!!
Komen's 5000 at 97 Worlds in Athens. First 2k in 5:33 and last 3k in 7:34. 2k -4k in 5 flat. Don't know exact quarter splits but first mile was about 4:30 and next two miles weren't that far off of 8 minutes.
1 KOMEN Daniel KEN 13:07.38
2 BOULAMI Khalid MAR 13:09.34
3 NYARIKI Thomas KEN 13:11.09
4 SGHIR Smail MAR 13:17.45
5 BAUMANN Dieter GER 13:17.64
6 KENNEDY Bob USA 13:19.45
7 LAHSSINI El Hassan MAR 13:20.52
8 MOLINA Enrique ESP 13:24.54
9 PANCORBO Manuel ESP 13:25.78
10 BAYISSA Fita ETH 13:25.98
11 BEHAR Abdellah FRA 13:29.10
12 BIKILA Worku ETH 13:30.02
13 BITOK Paul KEN 13:30.25
14 CASTRO Dionisio POR 13:31.74
15 OLMEDO Pablo MEX 14:05.59
Intermediate Pos Athlete Nat Mark
1000m 1 BAUMANN Dieter GER 2:43.86
2000m 1 BAUMANN Dieter GER 5:33.03
3000m 1 NYARIKI Thomas KEN 8:05.15
4000m 1 KOMEN Daniel KEN 10:33.49
Wang Junxia ran the second half of her 8:06.11 world record in 3:59, the only sub-4 1500m ever recorded in a women's 3k.
Even her 14:26 closing 5k during her 10k pales in comparison.
Bangpop Go wrote:
9.92/9.27=19.19
A poor example. It takes 30-40 meters to reach top speed. That's why the first 100m is slower.
Mr. Obvious wrote:Why do you think you know anything about my situation?
your postings are usually drivel with no evidence of even the vaguest of familiarity with many of the races discussed
did you even see abdi's race ?
do you have any clue at all about cram's form leading upto it ?
impress me...
I am just laughing at you because you seem to think that watching races on TV makes you some sort of expert
only a moron coud make that conclusion
Because you have WATCHED a lot of races on TV!!!!
plenty
i just checked :
out of the 75 runs <3'30, i can honestly say i've seen 72 of them, the only ones missing are a couple of noah's ( a 3'28.8 in munich being only one of note ) & a morceli 3'29.99 ( not going to worry about that one too much )
how many of those 75 you seen ?
...Jane, you ignorant slut.
ventolin^3 wrote:
JSpivey wrote:Abdi ran 24.9 from 500m to go until 300m to go. I lost ground running 25.3 over the same 200m split.Abdi's last 800 was 1:46.1
going on that -> abdi split 1'50.7/1'46.1
-> ~ 3'27.1
which is consistent with
2'05.2/1'31.6 ->3'26.7 !!!
really getting anal-retentive, we coud use that 24.9 quoted
we know he ran 2'05.2 for initial 800m & therefore 1'31.6 for last 700m, which includes a 24.9, so some more composite splits woud be
2'05.2/1'06.7/24.9
( doesn't matter they are not in order )
->3'25.9 !!!
( but remember off course hicham's actual wr wouda been at least 3'25-flat if he'd run perfect even splits when his variation included a last lap of 53.2 )
this indicates abdi's most outstanding running was probably done from 700m out rather than 800m
I would have to find my training log, but seem to remember running 1:48.5 for my last 800.
js
therfore in your 3'38.8 in that race, using 25.3 & 1'48.5, means your splits were :
1'50.3/25.3/1'23.2 ->3'30.3
with variability in pace in other parts of the race, it woud easily indicate 3'30-flat ability that day in perfect even pace race from gun-to-tape on the circuit
you were in <3'30 shape that day...
Have to say I agree that Bile was capable of well below 3:30, but 3:25.9 is a bit unbelievable! There are quite a few races to draw from when assessing EL G's 3:25/26 potential, but it's difficult to be convinced 100% based on one "sublime" run by Bile.
I think there has been a mistake with the splits given above too, which may affect the 3:25.9 prediction.
His last 800m was 1:46.9 not 1:46.1. Also, his 200m stretch from 500m out to 300m out I have as 25.5 and not 24.9. Looking at the race again, his last 500m was 1:04.5 (2:45.3), and his last 300m was 39.0(2:57.8), giving 25.5.
'those of us who have stood on the award stand due to our heroic efforts and those fiddling with a calculator'
That's not what he's fiddling with
ventolin^3 wrote:
hicham ran 3'28.9pb in '97, barely holding off cacho in a desperate finish
he looked no better than a mid-3'28 guy & absolutely no threat to morceli's 3'27.3wr off that, ever ( of course you woudn't have seen that race as you seem to have seen nothing )
he then ran a jaw-dropping 3'26.0wr the next year, 2.9s faster in actuality & more like 3s++ in terms of observed ease/pacing of both races
hicham looked to have improved 3s++ in 1y off an already 3'28.9pb
he offered repeatability of fast runs, abdi didn't, but the premise a 3'30 guy coud take ~4s off his pb is valid in context of hicham's example
you can then also add noah who went from 3'30 to 3'43 ( = mid/high 3'26 ) in 1y
africans have shown they can make huge improvements in short periods of time
Really! I wonder how these athletes made such huge jumps in improvement in a short period of time?
It had nothing to do with being African, and they weren't the only ones running seconds faster at all distances above 800. The biggest clue is in the date. The mid/late 90's was a total anomaly due to one thing, and one thing only. Some people need to get real.
Keith West at the Illinois State Champs 800 meter final back in the mid-90s.
'Really! I wonder how these athletes made such huge jumps in improvement in a short period of time?
It had nothing to do with being African, and they weren't the only ones running seconds faster at all distances above 800. The biggest clue is in the date. The mid/late 90's was a total anomaly due to one thing, and one thing only. Some people need to get real.'
So that 'big' sub 27 & 13 American must be on EPO too then and all the rest who have suddenly improved? Or do we just need to get real with runners born at altitude with better basic speed to boot?!
ukathleticscoach wrote:
'Really! I wonder how these athletes made such huge jumps in improvement in a short period of time?
It had nothing to do with being African, and they weren't the only ones running seconds faster at all distances above 800. The biggest clue is in the date. The mid/late 90's was a total anomaly due to one thing, and one thing only. Some people need to get real.'
So that 'big' sub 27 & 13 American must be on EPO too then and all the rest who have suddenly improved? Or do we just need to get real with runners born at altitude with better basic speed to boot?!
There will always be the odd few that get away with taking EPO, but there was NO test for it from 1994 (or mid 90's when it was first used) until 2001. It doesn't take much to work out that a lot more would have taken it then, knowing there was no chance of getting caught.
12:55 & 26:59 in 2010 is not that surprising when the world records were 13:00 and 27:13 in the mid 1980's.
3:26, 3:43s, 7:20, 12:39's & 26:20's some 15 years ago, and not really approached in the last 5 years is not natural progression.
moretothepoint wrote:12:55 & 26:59 in 2010 is not that surprising when the world records were 13:00 and 27:13 in the mid 1980's.
3:26, 3:43s, 7:20, 12:39's & 26:20's some 15 years ago, and not really approached in the last 5 years is not natural progression.
malmo kindly flattened out sol's 26'59 ( the one with that 1'56 finish)
it came out as ~ 26'46
deanouk wrote:I think there has been a mistake with the splits given above too, which may affect the 3:25.9 prediction.
His last 800m was 1:46.9 not 1:46.1. Also, his 200m stretch from 500m out to 300m out I have as 25.5 and not 24.9. Looking at the race again, his last 500m was 1:04.5 (2:45.3), and his last 300m was 39.0(2:57.8), giving 25.5.
there is still matter of a quoted
2'05.2/1'31.6
his split at 800m is required as that gives the fast result in original estimate
not using this but
last 800 of 1'46.9, last 500 of 64.5s, last 300 of 39.0
-> 1'49.9/42.4/25.5/39.0 ->
3'27.0
we need to do the estimate with his split at 800m