Japanese Marathon Training Methods

Some general information about Ingrid's training:

http://ingrid-kristiansen.com/holisticfitness/running.htm

Khalid Skah's training from

http://www.mariusbakken.com/index.php?parent=11&groupid=21

The other school of Maroccan training

The followers of the Khalid Skah training train a little bit different from the El Guerrouj group. They basically run hard Vo2 max sessions three times (sometimes 4) a week, and endurance sessions the rest. The endurance sessions usually start at a tempo around 4 min/km, and gradually pick up to 3.05-15 where they will continue for a total of about an hour of running (what they call “footing” –start slowly and build the pace). This progressive AT training is where they get their endurance. There is nothing called easy running here either, but the pace on days of AT is somewhat slower than the El Guerrouj group.

Power, in terms of hill running is also emphazied in this group. Khalid Skah runs about 2 sessions of hill work each week, year around. Sometimes 20x400 meter hills in the morning and 20x400 meters in the afternoon on the track in around 58 - 63 seconds. This because he claims the muscles he uses is different in uphill compared to flat running and the restitution will go quicker. The other Vo2 max sessions, is typically one fartlek where they run for example 5-4-3-2-1-2-3-4-5 minutes reps, sometimes times two. This at a blistering pace. Then a last session of longer track reps of either 6-8x1000 meters/3x2000 meters/3000-2000-2x1000-2x500/2000-1000-2x500 meters.

The distance runs are between 45 minutes and 60 minutes and average is around 200 km a week, ranging from 160-70 to around 220. Khalid also builds strength through weight workouts with many reps (to avoid bulky muscles) in the fall/winter period, and says that this together with his extensive use of hill training gives him the incredible kick he has. He has outkicked Gebreselassie, he has run 24.3 in the last 200 meters in a fast race, and 11.8 in the last 100 m. at the end of a 10000 meter, and together with Gebresalassie, Morceli, Aouita and Yifter the best kicker the world has seen. This, with only a 3.38 1500 meter to his credit. But through his training, he is able to sustain speed at the end of races.

Mohammed Mouhrit (world cross champ 2000/2001/12.49 5000 meter) follows more of the Skah training, with 400 meters in hills at 61-64 seconds and 400 meters on the track at 60 seconds with 40 sec. recoveries, where he is said to just absolutely bury extremely good marathon runners. (more info and details on Mouhrits training would be appreciated ! :-) ) As you can see again, endurance is needed to run fast in the longer distances, and the way to get great endurance is AT training. Then, power, speed and Vo2 max on top of this, and you can perform at your absolute best. It goes for the Kenyan system, the Maroccan system and the Portugues system. Plus for the training of Grete Waitz.

This article is based on some first hand knowledge though mostly reliable second hand information, and any further details and information would be greatly appreciated if this would correct any of the details published here.

Marius Bakken, 2001

More info here:

http://www.fasterskier.com/training/020519Skah.html

Coaches use to be

Coach Muro and Coach Nakamura, they help out

Douglas Wakiihuri from Kenya to be great and

more runners from other country's.

Ganbate.

Coach Murao. He acted as an assistance coach/manager for S&B team where Nakamura coached Seko (and Sakaguchi who is the head coach at Chugoku Electronics with 5 sub-2:10 guys). After Nakamura passed away, Murao took Wakihuri under his wings and trained him. He's coaching in Korea right now. I'll tell you a story; and of course, everybody knows I'm another one of "Lydiard-junkie" so bear with me. Lydiard was invited to Korea before Seoul Olympics to develop their distance running program. He couldn't stand Kim-chee so came back quickly but sent Barry Magee instead. Barry couldn't stand their food either so he came back after 2 months, instead of 2 years, but they decided to send a guy by the name of Jack Ralston. He finally did stay and laid the foundation for Korean marathon program. This was 1983, 84, 85...something like that. They all told me, in 1984, that they didn't have time for 88 Olympics. They didn't. But in 92, what's his name won the gold medal, beting the Japanese; then in 96, Lee Bong-ju won the silver behind the South African. Lee went on to run 2:07 and broke Kenyan winning streak at Boston.

What's his name's name is Hwang Young Cho. He and Morishita beat the hell out of each other on the hills of Montjuich Park. A fantastic race: Taniguchi lost his shoe and Nakayama missed out on a medal yet again.

Can anybody remember who took the bronze medal in that race? (No don't look it up)

Nobby who is this chap that you mentioned that's coaching in Korea? I live in Korea and I would love to meet up with him.

Regarding Lydiard's influence on South Korean marathoning.

The national record in 1986 was 2.14.06. In 1992, the year of the Barcelona Olympics, where Hwang won the gold medal,the national record was 2.08.47.

The current national record is 2.07.20 (held by Lee Bong Ju) Lee also won Fukuoka in 96.

The current South Korean women's national record is 2.26.12.

Stephan Freigang ?

I believe it talks about Seko's training in Running with the Legends.[/quote]

Yes it does, I love the way he talks about relationships saying "he does not need a woman as the marathon is his wife" or words to that effect.

Coach Nakamura viewed Dick Quax of New Zealand as a perfect runner--speed, endurance, fluid style, long legs, etc... He always said that he wanted to coach Quax. Years later I told that to Dick and he said, "No girlfriend and no beer!? I couldn't have handled that!" A typical Quackie reply... He certainly ran well and, under the different circumstances, could have done even greater things.

Hello again I will post the Skah traing today and Kristansen soon. My info is very much alike Xc Junkie but I will try to be more specific showing schedules. I also have some additional information just ask. I hope you understand my translations.

About Rodal training I posted it her some time ago:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=1187523&thread=1187288

Khalid Skah training

Born 29 jan 19671

Personal bests

1500m 3.38.10

3000m 7.36.76

2 miles 8.12.17

3000m hinder 8.19.30

5000m 13.00.54

10000m 27.14.53

Marathon 2.16.34

Winter training

First 3 weeks longruns twice a day 40-50min + weight training with 20-30kg then:

Morning runs 40-50 min evey day run in gradual way 4.00km down to 3.20km

Second workout of the day:

Mandag: Hills: Warm up 20-25min (6-7km)+ 15x300 hills (down the hill as breake)+downjogg.

Tirsdag: Track: 20x400m 65-60 sek. Pause 1min. Senere på vinteren kan en løpe 15x400m med kortere pause (45sek).

Onsdag: Fartslek: 5-4-3-2-1-1-2-3-4-5min løp. Rest is same as running time of the interval one week amd the half of the running time next week

Torsdag: 45-50min longrun

Fredag: Track

Alternativ 1: 8x 1000m 2.50-2.40min (pause 1min). Or:

Alternativ 2: 2000m+1000m+6x500m (langdistanseløpere) (pause 2min, 2min+1min between 500m).

Lørdag: Hills 10-15x200m hills, run down hill for rest.

Søndag: Longrun 60 min.

Spring and summer training

*Morning workouts as decribed above.

* 1 time hillworkout (200 or 300m ) until medio juni.

* 3-4 trackworkouts.

* 2-3 longruns max 60min

(pauser = rest)

Example of track workouts

*4x800m (p 60sek) + 4x400m (p 45 sek). Pace and rest increased closing in on the season. Rest 2min between 800 and 1min between 400 meter.

*3000m+2000m+2x1000m+2x500m (pauser: 5-3-11/2min-75sek).

*2000+1600+1200+800+400m (pauser: 5min, 3min, 11/2min, 75sek).

*15x400m (pause 60sek).

*20x200m (pause 30-45sek)

*12x500m (pause 75sek)

*3x3x300m (pause 45sek, 2min seriepause).

*10 x400m (pause 60sek)

*2000+1000+2x500m uneven pace (pauser 3min).

Before championships.

Last 14 says before V.M. eller O.G. :

Morning runs as usual until 3 days before the championship.

Dag = Day / Tid = Time / Bane = track training

Dag 1: Bane: 3000+2000+2x1000+2x500m ( If 10000m).Tider: 8:00-5:15- 2:37 -1:15-1.12 (pauser: 5min-3min-11/2min-75sek).

(If 5000m: 2000m+1600m+1200m+800m).

Dag 2: 40 min longrun.

Dag 3: Bane: 15x400m . Tid 60 sek (siste 55sek) (pause 1min).

Dag : 40 min longrun.

Dag 5: Bane: 20x200m 28-25sek. (pause 30-40sek).

Dag 6: 40 min longrun.

Dag 7: 12x 500m. 1:10-1:14. (If 10000m) (pause 60sek ).

or: 10x400m (5000m)

Dag 8: 40min Longrun

Dag 9: 40min Longrun

Dag 10: For 10000m:Banetrening; 2000m+1000m+2x500m. Variating speed. Pauser 3min.

(For 5000 og 1500m shorter intervals).

Dag11-13. (jogging easy twice a day).

Dag 14: 20min jogg in the morning

Evening: First round 10000m or 5000

Between first round and final: easy jogging.

Hello I know there is a great article about Grete Waitz on Marius Bakken homepage:

http://www.mariusbakken.com/index.php?parent=11&groupid=22

If you want more info I can give that, but I think this is a very good article.

About Ingrid Kristiansen:

She did really use hard word against the Chinese runners and refused to acknowlegde theirs result claiming they used drugs. Waitz was more openminded and belived their preformances could be results of knowlegde and hard work.

The info on

http://ingrid-kristiansen.com/

is very general so I will come back with some of her shedules next week.

Lookin forward to her about Seko and the Chinese

bjoblak@stud.hisf.no

Mopak it certainly was Friegang.

up

bump

Bump, excellent read.

Bump - Hopefully Nobby sees this thread and can add perspective. He had posted some great insight on 206 Toshi Takaoka and another 216 guy Toyokazu Yoshimura.

Hi,

I just finished the book "The way of the Runner" by Adharanand Finn. Finn goes to Japan to try and learn more about the Japanese running culture, and training methods. Definetly a good read if you want to know more about the running culture there, what works and what doesn't work. There are many negatives and downsides that Finn describes. Having been to Japan myself and worked with Japanese for a long time, he does have a perspective that shows a outsider/westernised view of Japan. Still a worthwhile book to read if you want to learn more.

He also wrote running with the Kenyans, where he went to Kenya to find out their secret as to why they are such good runners. I preferred this book much more. Reading them back to back, and in order---he went to Kenya first then to Japan, it's quite useful for understanding the different styles of running.

I will soon start reading his third book on ultrarunning in the US.

Hope that helps a bit!!

I've read all of his books recently, they're interesting running books but by the ultra running book I'd gotten a bit tired of his approach to the areas of running he was focused on.

I do ultras and the idea of doing a serious mountain 100k (IIRC the pyranese race he did was 100k) with no experience of actual hills is silly at best and potentially fatal. It's (in my opinion) going to become a big issue soon with people so desperately trying to qualify for UTMB with no experience of what a mountain can throw at you. I got frustrated with the feeling that he was trying to experience everything in as little time as possible, where 90% of his issues would've been avoided with some thought and not rushing in to things. It's no different than the average person that goes c25k > parkrun > 10k > half marathon > marathon in the space of 6 months whilst complaining about getting hurt constantly. There's value to making mistakes but that's part of the journey and he seriously misinterpreted ultra running imo.

Now I'm left wondering if he mis assessed japanese and Kenyan running too...

MooseMan wrote:

I got frustrated with the feeling that he was trying to experience everything in as little time as possible, where 90% of his issues would've been avoided with some thought and not rushing in to things. ..

Hi,

I don't think he is trying to experience everything, but it is his editors who I assume are paying him an advance for a book, want that aspect and won't sign his book unless he creates a kind of story line that culminates in a race- as a test for the method. If not he'd just be "some dude" hanging around in Kenya/Japan and the States and having a blast being a class a running bum. It does also make sense, one of the nice things about running is that it gives you a purpose that is worth striving for--- so in books where running centres around certain events to take part in that event.

For me I don't think there is a right/wrong on Kenyan and Japanese running, but different interpretation that are meaningful for other people, and one person cannot capture the entirety of a running culture. That being said being in the centre of the topic of what is explored (if you are in the US ultra scene), it's easy to have your own interpretations and disagreement with the author.

Kind regards,