A common theme among many of the defenders of O'Keeffe's decision to start the Olympic marathon is that in order to be considered an "Olympian" (whether it be for financial gain, the glory of the title, or some other reason) it was necessary for her to start the race even knowing she couldn't finish. So, what do you think? What criteria do you believe an athlete has to meet to call themselves an Olympian? Do you consider her an Olympian? Why or why not?
Well I think stepping onto the "field of play" is a no brainer in terms of classification.
The IOC does not officially list anyone unless they start or play in a contest.
Just being named is problematic. See US 1980 summer team where the USOPC recognizes them if they made the team.
Really? So, the third string goalkeeper on the US women's soccer team is not an Olympian since she didn't see any match time? Going to be awkward explaining how you got a gold medal despite not being an Olympian.
According to the IOC she is not. That is why coaches on team sports should make sure every athlete sees the field. Put that goalie in for the last 1 minute of a pool play game. Not that hard.
We need to fix the incentives (both contractual and social) and/or take the decision out of athletes hands. This is the most clear cut case of the reason alternates exist and yet the alternat was not used. If not this time, why even bother naming alternates. USATF could require a 2 week team training camp where they observe the athletes. Or require workout data be submitted 2-3 weeks prior to games. Based on that, USATF makes the decision on weather to send an alternate to Paris. The alternate could then become the default, but once there, the original qualified athlete could have a chance up to the cut off point to demonstrate changed conditions and the ability to compete. Do you think that if Fred Kerly showed up to relay camp limping and unable to practice handoffs, Christian Coleman would have been subbed in his place for the 100m individual event? I sure hope he would have. This needs to be fixed at an organizational level. Athletes, coaches, agents and sponsors can adapt to the new reality.
No. A true Olympian would have either finished the race or would have been honest with themselves and made the right decision (something that she didn't do. Always put your country head of yourselves).
Really? So, the third string goalkeeper on the US women's soccer team is not an Olympian since she didn't see any match time? Going to be awkward explaining how you got a gold medal despite not being an Olympian.
first off, women's soccer had 18 person rosters this time, there was no US third string keeper, as within 18 players you usually carry only 2 active keepers. we did call 4 more alternates which is where the nominal 3rd keeper was, but i don't think alternates get medals. it's akin to being a TF alternate, who isn't considered an olympian unless they trigger the contingency and get activated. the US did activate 1 alternate, bethune, who played 11 mins. but for the other 2, no.
second, your argument is apples to oranges. team sports are run different than medal sports. murphy (backup keeper) and shaw didn't play, but they are long term team members, on the roster, and they received gold medals. everyone on the winning active roster gets a medal. it's akin to a semi relay guy who gets replaced.
are we then suggesting they "aren't olympians" when they "have a gold?" that's absurd.
third, the basic debate here is dumb. she started, ran a period, then DNFed hurt. literally no one i know says that's not an olympian. is some chick who tags hurdle 5 and face plants, has to be wheeled off, not an olympian? same diff. heck, we would say a false start was an olympian, so she went further than that.
fourth, given the differences between team and individual sports the only consistent definition of olympian is you make the team, are registered, and are either on the active opening roster or activated off alternate status with the ability to participate. whether you play is a factoid. some other athlete is not playing in shericka jackson's place. she was there. she could have been in the opening ceremony. she was heated. she warmed up. she bailed hurt.
otherwise we have to parse individual vs. team where individuals are olympians only for showing up to the line and trying to play, while team members need not play. the unused US backup keeper got a medal whether it pains you or not.
overwrought drama llama. she won a list of HS and NCAA championships, as well as winning the trials. she nominally participated before pulling up lame in the olympics. she didn't miss the team entirely (mu) or get tossed for drugs tests. this is fanboy snob nonsense. why on earth would a sponsor ditch a multi-NCAA champion who just got through winning our trials and is 26 with more hopefully to come? oh, the horror! i guess she should have limped the course for you and permanently damaged the goods. as though that's a superior sponsor outcome long term.
to be the tiniest bit fair, but also critical of your argument same time, she is young and might be back. hopefully she is, so it shuts you up.
i mean, "stain?" are you kidding me. she didn't pull a shecarri weed thing and shecarri is back in good graces apparently. stand up from your fainting couch, please.
overwrought drama llama. she won a list of HS and NCAA championships, as well as winning the trials. she nominally participated before pulling up lame in the olympics. she didn't miss the team entirely (mu) or get tossed for drugs tests. this is fanboy snob nonsense. why on earth would a sponsor ditch a multi-NCAA champion who just got through winning our trials and is 26 with more hopefully to come? oh, the horror! i guess she should have limped the course for you and permanently damaged the goods. as though that's a superior sponsor outcome long term.
to be the tiniest bit fair, but also critical of your argument same time, she is young and might be back. hopefully she is, so it shuts you up.
i mean, "stain?" are you kidding me. she didn't pull a shecarri weed thing and shecarri is back in good graces apparently. stand up from your fainting couch, please.
I agree it's not career ending or anything, but I doubt Puma is thrilled seeing her limp around in their shoes in dfl for one mile before dropping out. She got more attention for this than their athlete who ran a great race and got 12th.
"true olympian?" so if some dude breaks from the blocks and yanks his hammy, same outcome? are we gonna parse existing vs. triggered by the race, or what was in people's heads?
and given we run our thing, relays aside, mostly as an earned honor, at trials and by making the standard, to me it's their choice how they handle their injury. i agree it's an honorable act to step aside for the alternate. but the flip dark side of this thread is they may only make it once and the sort of nitpickers starting this thread will then say NEVER AN OLYMPIAN. surely you see the disincentive.
conversely, having won the honor, they may prefer to fight it out to the last second, pray for a miracle, and take the gun.......or even start knowing it's not happening, as the culmination of their success to that point.
last point, but the sam kendricks approach may have been required by the rules, and he already had been to rio and medaled. ideally people do the right thing, but it helps to turn it down knowing you've already sipped from the cup and aren't giving up potentially your only time there.
The general use of the term Olympian is somewhat laughable. You participated in the Olympics. The term Olympian indicates you now have some status or super power than others don't, and honestly as a person you aren't substantially different from who you were before you qualified.
Everyone seriously using the term probably needs to just get over themselves.
overwrought drama llama. she won a list of HS and NCAA championships, as well as winning the trials. she nominally participated before pulling up lame in the olympics. she didn't miss the team entirely (mu) or get tossed for drugs tests. this is fanboy snob nonsense. why on earth would a sponsor ditch a multi-NCAA champion who just got through winning our trials and is 26 with more hopefully to come? oh, the horror! i guess she should have limped the course for you and permanently damaged the goods. as though that's a superior sponsor outcome long term.
to be the tiniest bit fair, but also critical of your argument same time, she is young and might be back. hopefully she is, so it shuts you up.
i mean, "stain?" are you kidding me. she didn't pull a shecarri weed thing and shecarri is back in good graces apparently. stand up from your fainting couch, please.
I agree it's not career ending or anything, but I doubt Puma is thrilled seeing her limp around in their shoes in dfl for one mile before dropping out. She got more attention for this than their athlete who ran a great race and got 12th.
the pretense of the argument is they only sponsor one person in the world. they bet on several horses who all get sponsored. short of them finishing in a row at the end -- which probably almost never happens -- and might actually bring scrutiny -- the whole concept is maybe A pays off but B and C do ok. and maybe even then, B is seen as their route into some market that won't be enthused by A so much.
unless she says the shoes caused my problem, you're sponsoring one of the premier US marathoners, and, as with athing mu, looking to The Next One telling yourself you're betting on a superior horse. to me "stain" for the shoe company is either kipchoge's shoes come apart or houlihan/knighton test positive. actual reputation ding. it is not a hit on the shoe company if one of their stable drops out hurt unless she blames the shoe for it.
there's a couple worlds this cycle, NY, boston, and a home oly in 28. maybe she pays off then. and if not, it's a diversification gamble where puma also bet on others. i'm not obsessed with that part where i can say someone else puma did fine or not. but just saying they aren't betting on the one horse so as opposed to it being a complete bust, someone else was the showpiece this time.
to me if she never gets to the mountain top or is routinely hurt, it's not some big nasty shame, its she quietly doesn't get reupped. which is usually discussed more as "she's now with nike" or "unsponsored" and less as puma did a thing or she reflected badly on puma.
in 2020 yared nuguse went and dns due to injury....noone harassed him
Agreed, why is there so much hate towards her? It's honestly a bit bizarre. I don't think it was that big of a deal. The amount of hate she's getting is insane. Even Emily Sisson didn't feel great going into the Olympics; she mentioned her body felt fatigued. This is running—a calf can pull unexpectedly midway through. People really need to back off.
to me if she never gets to the mountain top or is routinely hurt, it's not some big nasty shame, its she quietly doesn't get reupped. which is usually discussed more as "she's now with nike" or "unsponsored" and less as puma did a thing or she reflected badly on puma.
Geesh! I don't agree with her decision and don't feel good about her being touted at events as an olympian at this point, but let's have a gut check. Wishing that she never has further success and loses her sponsor is a bit much. Starting that race was not the honorable thing to do, but it should not cost her everything.