Translation of article from Odile Baudrier spe15.fr
by: Translation of article from Odile Baudrier spe15.fr February 18, 2016 Editor's note: The article below is an English translation of the original Jan
The IAAF needs to figure out who was doping the 17 year old Driouch when he tested positive. Updated: Odile Baudrier of SPE15.fr has sent us English translations of his original article and the email he received from Driouch...
Omertà, plain and simple. The track world is too small to throw yourself under the bus and whistle blow. Many involved in the sport don’t want career opportunities closed off by bucking the system. Look at the examples of those who have: Steve Magness was crucified. The Stepanovas basically self-exiled for their own safety.
How do those outcomes make it worthwhile to speak when the entire system is set up to enable—tacitly or explicitly—rampant doping. Shoe companies, agents, meet directors, coaches, USADA, and on down the line. Cheating is always there, and sometimes people get caught. Those unlucky few will never be enough to turn the tide.
However it's not lucrative enough to make someone keep their mouth shut. Most athletes will be out of the game by their late 20s and they don't necessarily want to stay in athletics.
"My current position is that doping is prevalent at the elite level across sport & across nations. Testing now being carried out is largely ineffective and most cheaters are not being caught."
You wrote: ""3. Confidential athlete surveys have indicated doping is widespread at championship level and far more than the numbers caught. The incentives to dope remain and the chances of being caught are slim - except for "the dumb and the careless"."
"My current position is that doping is prevalent at the elite level across sport & across nations. Testing now being carried out is largely ineffective and most cheaters are not being caught."
You wrote: ""3. Confidential athlete surveys have indicated doping is widespread at championship level and far more than the numbers caught. The incentives to dope remain and the chances of being caught are slim - except for "the dumb and the careless"."
That's not what you quoted above. Try again.
I was not making a quote - moron. It was my own statement based on facts which the likes of you obviously know nothing about. The quote I believed I was responding to was from Shirley.
Do many naive or purposely ignorant people posting. I threw at a large D1 school and not only was doping widespread , it was expected. Watched teammates do it. New of competitors that did it. Made it my mission to try and beat them clean. Often failed. Sometimes I would be successful. But had coaches tell me "just imagine if you had the extra....." That's what I found funny. It was widely known , widely pushed and nobody ever wanted to openly say it. I transferred to a small NAIA school. No pressure to do anything but just do me.
Doping in track and field is widespread folks. Sorry to ruin your day.
Kids at my high school were into the "grey-market" supplements. Remember Jack3d, or was it Craze? I forget. It had a precursor to methamphetamine in it. It was sold at stores like GNC. You could go buy a tub of this preworkout, drink some, and basically be a tweeker and workout like never before. And these are teenagers we're talking about. I know they're doing SARMs and other things now.
This is the type of things that probably got Shelby—weird shady supplements from China with poor QC. She was probably less interested in stimulants and more after some HGH or test precursor.
I didn't say she accused specific athletes, f***wit. I have read articles she has written, in which she expressed the points that I have referred to, and chiefly her conclusions that doping is at the top levels of all sports and in all countries. Obviously, you haven't read them and are only interested in issues of accreditation. Funny that, since you have none.
Whatever you didn't say, this thread is about athletes doping.
You said "Renee Ann(sic) Shirley was an investigator" -- she wasn't. She produced no investigative report, and no athlete, coach, supplier, or organizations were charged, sanctioned, or declared non-compliant, as a consequence.
You said that whistleblowers can't even exist for doping in track due to its unique individual nature and environment: "Doping in track is an individual activity. How do whistleblowers know what anyone else is doing? Do they know their competitors' tax liabilities as well? Do dopers tell other runners what they are doing? What is the incentive to be a whistleblower? In cycling whistleblowing came as part of a team and from cyclists who had been caught doping and were hoping for a lighter sanction. That isn't the environment in track."
Whatever she blew the whistle for, it cannot be for doping in track, according to you.
But there is a regular poster here who says doping doesn't help, and especially marathon runners, and another who says it cannot work because it doesn't increase energy. So what were your team-mates thinking!
If you meant me, I never doubted whether doping helps D1 school throwers (especially women). But notably, he(/she?) didn't say it helped, just that it was widespread and expected. He(/she?) also said he(/she?) could sometimes beat the dopers while he(/she?) was clean.
Do many naive or purposely ignorant people posting. I threw at a large D1 school and not only was doping widespread , it was expected. Watched teammates do it. New of competitors that did it. Made it my mission to try and beat them clean. Often failed. Sometimes I would be successful. But had coaches tell me "just imagine if you had the extra....." That's what I found funny. It was widely known , widely pushed and nobody ever wanted to openly say it. I transferred to a small NAIA school. No pressure to do anything but just do me.
Doping in track and field is widespread folks. Sorry to ruin your day.
The only day you probably would be ruining is rekrunner's. 😉
I didn't say she accused specific athletes, f***wit. I have read articles she has written, in which she expressed the points that I have referred to, and chiefly her conclusions that doping is at the top levels of all sports and in all countries. Obviously, you haven't read them and are only interested in issues of accreditation. Funny that, since you have none.
Whatever you didn't say, this thread is about athletes doping.
You said "Renee Ann(sic) Shirley was an investigator" -- she wasn't. She produced no investigative report, and no athlete, coach, supplier, or organizations were charged, sanctioned, or declared non-compliant, as a consequence.
You said that whistleblowers can't even exist for doping in track due to its unique individual nature and environment: "Doping in track is an individual activity. How do whistleblowers know what anyone else is doing? Do they know their competitors' tax liabilities as well? Do dopers tell other runners what they are doing? What is the incentive to be a whistleblower? In cycling whistleblowing came as part of a team and from cyclists who had been caught doping and were hoping for a lighter sanction. That isn't the environment in track."
Whatever she blew the whistle for, it cannot be for doping in track, according to you.
She didn't accuse individual athletes - I didn't suggest that - but from her researches she said doping is throughout elite sport in all countries, which was a claim that it was far worse than many believed. She "blew the whistle" on the sport, and the weakness of Jamaican antidoping in particular, and her findings have not been disputed by WADA or anyone else in antidoping. Only is it disputed by deniers like yourself.
This post was edited 4 minutes after it was posted.
But there is a regular poster here who says doping doesn't help, and especially marathon runners, and another who says it cannot work because it doesn't increase energy. So what were your team-mates thinking!
If you meant me, I never doubted whether doping helps D1 school throwers (especially women). But notably, he(/she?) didn't say it helped, just that it was widespread and expected. He(/she?) also said he(/she?) could sometimes beat the dopers while he(/she?) was clean.
You've "never doubted doping helps D1 school throwers, and especially women"! But that's just your "belief", which never extends to Kenyan marathon runners, who are now being busted on a weekly basis. And for doping that doesn't help them.
Do many naive or purposely ignorant people posting. I threw at a large D1 school and not only was doping widespread , it was expected. Watched teammates do it. New of competitors that did it. Made it my mission to try and beat them clean. Often failed. Sometimes I would be successful. But had coaches tell me "just imagine if you had the extra....." That's what I found funny. It was widely known , widely pushed and nobody ever wanted to openly say it. I transferred to a small NAIA school. No pressure to do anything but just do me.
Doping in track and field is widespread folks. Sorry to ruin your day.
This is fascinating and exactly what I was after. I guess if everyone is doing it at such an early level there is no where to go to tell people really. Thanks and do any other ex d1 athletes have similar experiences
You wrote: ""3. Confidential athlete surveys have indicated doping is widespread at championship level and far more than the numbers caught. The incentives to dope remain and the chances of being caught are slim - except for "the dumb and the careless"."
That's not what you quoted above. Try again.
I was not making a quote - moron. It was my own statement based on facts which the likes of you obviously know nothing about. The quote I believed I was responding to was from Shirley.
I was not making a quote - moron. It was my own statement based on facts which the likes of you obviously know nothing about. The quote I believed I was responding to was from Shirley.
So now it's not a quote... riiiight....
On the other thread you wrote "The WADA quote I have referred to" You are a very confused or dishonest man. Probably both.
Do many naive or purposely ignorant people posting. I threw at a large D1 school and not only was doping widespread , it was expected. Watched teammates do it. New of competitors that did it. Made it my mission to try and beat them clean. Often failed. Sometimes I would be successful. But had coaches tell me "just imagine if you had the extra....." That's what I found funny. It was widely known , widely pushed and nobody ever wanted to openly say it. I transferred to a small NAIA school. No pressure to do anything but just do me.
Doping in track and field is widespread folks. Sorry to ruin your day.
The only day you probably would be ruining is rekrunner's. 😉
This didn't ruin my day. I never doubted that doping in track and field is widespread, including field events like throwing.
But this thread is about a quantitative comparison: "... as widespread as people make out."
She didn't accuse individual athletes - I didn't suggest that - but from her researches she said doping is throughout elite sport in all countries, which was a claim that it was far worse than many believed. She "blew the whistle" on the sport, and the weakness of Jamaican antidoping in particular, and her findings have not been disputed by WADA or anyone else in antidoping. Only is it disputed by deniers like yourself.
You keep saying imaginary things like "investigation" and "researches" and "findings". She conducted no investigation, nor research that produced any significant findings, beyond JADCO not conducting OOC testing in the leadup to the 2012 Olympics, resulting in a subsequent audit and board resignations in Jamaican anti-doping.
Her "position" is the unremarkable statement that doping is prevalent among elites in sports -- echoing exactly what many people already believed. You are the one embellishing a non-quantitative statement with "far worse than many believed".
I don't ever dispute or deny that doping is prevalent in many sports and nations -- in fact, WADA produces testing and ADRV reports annually. In 2019, WADA told us about ADRVs from 117 nationalities (peaking at 122 in 2015) across 89 sports (peaking at 112 sports in 2016). This doesn't include non-WADA sports like American NFL and MLB.
On the other thread you wrote "The WADA quote I have referred to" You are a very confused or dishonest man. Probably both.
That he is extremely dishonest is a fact. When it was shown that he was wrong on something, he always chenges the subject or something like that. He never just agrees that he was wrong.
Impossible to have a serious discussion with him when you differ.
If you meant me, I never doubted whether doping helps D1 school throwers (especially women). But notably, he(/she?) didn't say it helped, just that it was widespread and expected. He(/she?) also said he(/she?) could sometimes beat the dopers while he(/she?) was clean.
You've "never doubted doping helps D1 school throwers, and especially women"! But that's just your "belief", which never extends to Kenyan marathon runners, who are now being busted on a weekly basis. And for doping that doesn't help them.
Not doubting something is a "belief"? I think you are trying too hard just making yourself look awkward. My lack of doubt for these other events is primarily based on my apathy for non-distance running events. Doping may or may not "help" throwers, but that is beside the point of any expressed doubts about blood doping for distance runners above and beyond altitude training.
I simply follow the data, and where data is lacking, there is room for doubt. My doubts about Kenyan marathoners are not any different than my doubts about non-African marathoners worldwide. The data of the number and rate of busts, especially for non-blood doping busts like steroids, or trimetazidine, or triamcinolone acetonide, or whereabouts failures, doesn't provide any insight into whether blood doping helps or helped athletes already training at altitude for an extended period.
I was not making a quote - moron. It was my own statement based on facts which the likes of you obviously know nothing about. The quote I believed I was responding to was from Shirley.
So now it's not a quote... riiiight....
Christ, you are thick. You can't tell the difference between a comment and a direct quote.
She didn't accuse individual athletes - I didn't suggest that - but from her researches she said doping is throughout elite sport in all countries, which was a claim that it was far worse than many believed. She "blew the whistle" on the sport, and the weakness of Jamaican antidoping in particular, and her findings have not been disputed by WADA or anyone else in antidoping. Only is it disputed by deniers like yourself.
You keep saying imaginary things like "investigation" and "researches" and "findings". She conducted no investigation, nor research that produced any significant findings, beyond JADCO not conducting OOC testing in the leadup to the 2012 Olympics, resulting in a subsequent audit and board resignations in Jamaican anti-doping.
Her "position" is the unremarkable statement that doping is prevalent among elites in sports -- echoing exactly what many people already believed. You are the one embellishing a non-quantitative statement with "far worse than many believed".
I don't ever dispute or deny that doping is prevalent in many sports and nations -- in fact, WADA produces testing and ADRV reports annually. In 2019, WADA told us about ADRVs from 117 nationalities (peaking at 122 in 2015) across 89 sports (peaking at 112 sports in 2016). This doesn't include non-WADA sports like American NFL and MLB.
She is an acknowledged international expert on doping. You are just a liar on a message board.
This post was edited 22 seconds after it was posted.
You've "never doubted doping helps D1 school throwers, and especially women"! But that's just your "belief", which never extends to Kenyan marathon runners, who are now being busted on a weekly basis. And for doping that doesn't help them.
Not doubting something is a "belief"? I think you are trying too hard just making yourself look awkward. My lack of doubt for these other events is primarily based on my apathy for non-distance running events. Doping may or may not "help" throwers, but that is beside the point of any expressed doubts about blood doping for distance runners above and beyond altitude training.
I simply follow the data, and where data is lacking, there is room for doubt. My doubts about Kenyan marathoners are not any different than my doubts about non-African marathoners worldwide. The data of the number and rate of busts, especially for non-blood doping busts like steroids, or trimetazidine, or triamcinolone acetonide, or whereabouts failures, doesn't provide any insight into whether blood doping helps or helped athletes already training at altitude for an extended period.
It is a "belief" because your "undoubted" conviction that doping helps women in field events is no different from the claim that doping aids distance runners, which you dismiss as a mere "belief" without proof. There is rarely a more stupid argument that doping will only help one group of athletes and not another - despite the fact it is widely practised in both groups.
