139 runners broke 9 minutes this year.

Are they?

Take a look at the 1976 NCAA results.

trackandfieldnews.com

1976 NCAA Cross Country Championships - Track & Field News

Sieg Lindstrom

Click on the scanned image below to view a PDF of the full results.

Link:trackandfieldnews.com/ncaa-cross-count...

As a coach, this has been a shift in my philosophy once my athletes become sophomores/juniors and show they really really want to be good. And we are starting this year with a few changes. A little more aggressive on everyday pace. Bumping mileage up with the Top 7-12 on the team plus any other runner who wants to, adding in doubles, etc.

I used to think, “Oh, I don’t want to burn them out or overrun them.” I would definitely say they were undertrained compared to overdoing it.

Our top 5 guys from xc were still running 1:54-1:58, 4:13-4:26 and 9:08-9:42 off of 45-48 mpw. But 1:54, 4:13, and 9:08 ain’t what it used to be and recruiting is relentless.

So after listening to how many of my athletes go to college and so many of their coaches, not all, just throw them to the fire their first year. Why not bump them up and see what’s possible? Especially if they enjoy it. And absolutely especially if they have no interest running after high school. Granted, 80+ is still a bit much, but who knows, that could change after this year.

they train with their coach. Don't cause problems for your team and program by going behind their back by hiring a private coach.

Not in my state they don’t, one outside program coaches over 400 kids during off season and the top ones use that training during the season as well, girls and boys. And they get results so any high school coach should be open minded and learn from it. Not all high school coaches know what to do with the standout kid that surfaces once in a blue moon, why hold that runner back?

Colorado?

No, Iowa

Nice advertising. Dowling boys and Johnston girls are the premier programs. How many train with private coaches? Or how about the top guy Zuber? Nauman? What about Steines? Gehl? Leitzen? Wedemeyer?

Shoes, yes. But the kids having nothing better to do during covid than run was important too.

Actually not advertising actually why I didn’t say state at first. Don’t know him. Do look at his instagram and see how well his kids do. Dowling has one of best coaches in area. Zuber use to train with him and really wouldn’t consider him top guy, he was beat in 3200 at Drake and beat twice in 1600 so there is that, top girl does, top 1600 boy does. but your right Naumen, Merrick and few others at top do not. But you can’t get on here and say he is not working with a heap of kids and getting results

Niwot and Real Training are some of the worst offenders in the arena.

It's probably a combination of better training methods, shoes, better foods.. Etc.

I know when I graduated high school in 1998 that there were nowhere near this many good runners nationwide.

Also this site contributes alot to better times. When you can come on here and see what everyone else is doing, etc.

I'm not implying that I have any issue with training HS kids as NCAA athletes. After all, cost of college has gotten crazy and if you can use running to get into a great school and save money, you as a coach are doing them a great service. I do worry a bit about the potential long term abuse of high mileage on younger bodies and how that can affect them in later life, but I'm not a doctor so I can't really say if there is any merit to those concerns. I also worry about the psychological issues that come from runners that had great success in HS, but struggle once they get on campus. There were always runners that couldn't match their earlier successes, but now we are seeing insanely low HS times that they can't get anywhere near in college. That does take a toll, and we have seen an increase in suicides over the last few years. Again, there could be a lot of other factors contributing to that including covid depression, etc. but as the old saying goes "you don't get something for nothing" and I wonder if we aren't making a deal with the devil to achieve these better times.

I also wonder when College coaches are going to catch on to the little ruse and start looking at strava to ascertain the potential of future athletes. Nothing upsets a coach more than to get an athlete who has these great times, but burns out in college. They have to find new runners to replace them, and often ties revoke their scholarships. Will we see smart coaches starting to use different metrics than an 8:50 3200 time to determine a runners long term success in their program. Just a thought.

Zuber, Merrick, Nauman, Kifle. So none of the top guys use a private coach. And Leitzen, Wedemeyer, Steines, Gehl do not. The argument was that the coach elevated the runners but it seems clear that us all about the shoes. The current crop woukd not beat Pollard or Evans for boys or Jenks or Flood for girls. It is the shoes. Run a time trial in spikes from 2005 and you will see.

In order of importance.

1. Shoes which allow more and faster training.

2. Widespread gps watch use. Easy sharing of this data with coaches, teammates, and social groups. Has lead to much better training.

3. Covid. Nothing better to do with their time.

4. The ability to have status and become “internet famous” just by running faster and sharing on socials. Widespread smartphones use at early ages.

5. The stigma of running not being a real sport or being skinny for guys is much less of a thing at that age now. Athletes that traditionally might have played football are more likely than before to run as parents worry about brain damage and concussions.

Tens of thousands of kids are training at higher levels while there are only tens of scholarships available for them. Schools get a max of 12.6 split between sprints, hurdles, jumps, throws, multis, etc. The more that people claim it isn't shoes and is training, the fewer scholarships that college coaches will want to give because the upside will be much less. HS kids don't seem to get that. They are better off to claim that their training is no different than the training of the past.

Valid points except for the last one. Pre, Rodgers, Shorter, Mills, Salazar, Liquori, Ryan. Stands were packed during their era because they were cool. Now we have Nuguse, Kessler, Teare, Hocker, Rooks. They are the nerdiest group of guys ever. Fans are leaving.

Your way off topic but there’s multiple sophomores who will eclipse pollard even if you find them shoes from 2005, just the facts. And do you know how any of those first 4 names train? Funny you know who don’t give one crap about shoes? College coaches because everyone has them. There’s not a sport that don’t have better equipment then from 2005. Everyone says the shoes help in training because you can train longer and recover faster, but no one mentions some of the top kids don’t train in them because they are shown to actually cause leg injuries. There’s top kids who race in them but do not train in them. I know our school try’s to keep kids from training in them. First hand experience my kid won’t even spike up for workouts cause of the plates. They are especially not good for kids who are still growing the carbon plates beat you up. Indoor tracks are built faster, outdoor track rubber has been getting better but the simple minded people only point to shoes.

I have one question for perspective: what do we think of Cross Country? I had an athlete break a 30-year course record (and obviously is now one of the Top 10 runners in country) at the state meet, etc. I am not putting that to shoes (run in Nike Flat Spikes, a non super shoe). But is XC, even if run in Dragonflies, a good barometer of current vs past talent?

Lol I am running in the modern era. I had dragonflies senior year