What does training look like for all these ridiculously fast high school kids?

Plenty of kids get sick/injured. Look at AS outdoor season or Gavin Sherry. I wouldn’t be shocked if the frequency is down though. Between shoes, better prehab, and physical therapists to get you back running things might be a bit easier. It also helps that you have a lot more kids in middle school getting in some miles to be ready for hs training.

So how do you explain more and more runners peaking in their 30s and even their 40s?

So no one dopes in high school?

MS and Youth Track/XC is a thing. Columbus is BLOWING UP in size and all the big schools north like Olentangy Orange/Liberty have tons of MS and Elem feeders w/their programs.

Fleet Feet has a Fast Rabbits track program for kiddos that's always big...others like CRC and SNRC have groups like those as well.

This leads to talent being identified earlier and more time spent training seriously for hs'ers. That's got to be part of it.

Everything hinges around the shoes, and anyone denying it is delusional.

Better new shoes are easier on the feet with lower impact forces which means they can run longer workouts and faster workouts with less recovery time and a lot less smaller injury.

Add to that a carbon plate and you're running faster track times as well.

Sure double thresholds are a thing, but could people do those consistently in the old shoes without greater risk???

So yes training has changed, but once again its coz of the shoes more than some magical new method.

Not even mentioning a faster track surface or potential doping....

Put together, this explains all the new records at every level, HS college and pro.

Nah, the internet/education generally is a valid point even if it isn't the only thing. The transition out of the 90s/early 2000s dark ages where people focused so much on intervals probably took longer to hit high school, but it's had an impact. Idk how much of it is athlete-driven vs. coach-driven, and there's probably variance, but the shift to re-emphasizing mileage, threshold, and easy stuff (not to mention the places that actually focus on recovery/mobility, too) is huge.

Anecdote: I moved in high school (2009/2010) and the new coach was a school counselor and wrestling guy who only cared about hard intervals because he thought long, slow runs made slow runners who could run for a long time. Thankfully, he was open to input and shifted his approach when we brought him "new" info about things like tempo runs, mile repeats, long progressions, etc. For coaches like that, who have open minds but lack the relevant experience/education, having easier access to good information and athletes who can easily find it makes a huge difference. For the athletes, watching guys like Verzbicas, Fernandez, and Webb on youtube motivated me to get my ass out the door for my solo summer doubles. It was just too bad none of us got the easy run memo--probably would've raced better at the end of the year if I hadn't blasted every single workout throughout the summer and fall.

Edit: Probably wasn't clear above, but my point was that even if the internet did exist in 2010 I still had to look for stuff more, didn't have a smartphone, and was limited to 30ish minutes per day on our family computer. Now, it's just accepted that kids are online all the time. Horribly detrimental in many respects, but the combination of continually developing training methods and absolutely pervasive internet use have dramatically eased access to info across the country.

NYC's schools (other than less than a handful) were the laughing stock of NYS distance programs. There were years where 9:50 in a 3200 would be 1st place. They were always the worst teams in the federation XC meet. The excuse used to be that its harder to run on city roads than suburban and rural hills. Now they're among the best in NYS track races.

I've mentioned how my son's coach doesn't do much and I believe the reason HIS team is doing well now (21 in a 5k and 5:15 in the 1600 used to be among his team's best results) is because the kids are on strava encouraging each other and watching what their competitors and other good runners in the metropolitan area are doing.

Also the youth programs are strong. The right coaches are running them and they're developing runners not running them into the ground.

In every single sport the athletes are getting faster, stronger, and just better. Track/XC is no different. Access to better nutrition and training, increasing populations, and yes, better sports equipment, allow for better athletes. It is not just the shoes, but of course they do have an effect. That does not, however, invalidate any of the impressive accomplishments made by young athletes today.

Here is one interesting article I've seen resurface occasionally. Note that it's about a 4 hour drive from LA to the Mexican border.

outsideonline.com

Drug Test

sperkins-pom

Everybody knows that many athletes cheat by using performance-enhancing drugs like steroids, testosterone, and EPO. But what is it like to take these banned substances? Do they really help you win? To find out, we sent an ama...

Link:www.outsideonline.com/health/training-...

A quote to highlight:

"So at first I just hit the streets. I live in Santa Monica, California, and I started going to Gold's Gym in nearby Venice, the place that launched Arnold Schwarzenegger and other bodybuilding greats. At Gold's you can easily meet gym rats who know where to find muscle-enhancing goodies, and after a few weeks of hanging out, I found myself sitting in a beat-up sports car with one of my new lifting buddies, a beefy guy in his early thirties who showed off his stash with unveiled excitement.

“Look, here's a good thing to start with,” he said.
He handed me a bottle of pills. It was Stanozolol, an anabolic steroid that lifters use to add muscle mass. This is one of the drugs that sprinter Ben Johnson was caught using at the 1988 Summer Olympics in Seoul, where he was subsequently stripped of his 100-meter gold medal.
“Where do you get this?” I said.
“A vet I know,” he answered casually. It took me a second to realize he meant veterinarian, not military veteran. “Vets and Mexican farmacias, that's where you get the best stuff.” I looked at the label on the bottle—these were literally animal pills. They're used to bulk up livestock, and they're banned from greyhound racing, where they're given to dogs to make them stronger."

...

"When I checked in with the good doctor soon after the race, he wasn't surprised about what I'd experienced. “With your hematocrit levels higher, you don't produce as much lactic acid, which means you can ride harder, longer, with less stress. The growth hormone and testosterone help you recover faster, since you're stronger to start with and recover more quickly. All those little muscle tears repair much more quickly.”
He shrugged. “It works,” he said. “It always works.”"

I'm not saying that they are doping, but a certain LA area high school in a relatively affluent area that had a TON of success that brought fame / following (even the New York Times wrote an article about them) and likely relatively significant $ rewards in the form of NIL deals and similar things, with a coach with ties to Christian Hesch who was a known EPO user, in a 'division' (that is, all of high school) that doesn't ever drug test - I was never drug tested after finishing top 5 at state multiple times and even after winning once - could have drug usage going on

I coach some talented HS runners—while they may not be nationally ranked, they're among the best in the state. I was a top high school runner myself back in the early 2000s, and I prefer to keep training straightforward when working with a group of high school athletes. However, I've incorporated more speedwork and threshold training into our routines, which we didn't do much of when I was in school but find very beneficial, especially for cross country. For example, instead of just doing 6 x 800, we might add 4-6 x 200 at the end of the session. In the past, long runs were about an hour, but now they can extend to 80 minutes or more, depending on the athlete's experience and age. I also believe that shoes have improved significantly; they help keep athletes healthier and contribute to faster times.

i learned absolutely zero in this thread after wasting time reading it all. I should sue you all

Did you look at any of the athlete's strava posts?

Oh all the arguments against shoes I doubt anybody can come up with an alternative reason as to why NCAA sub 4 minute miles went from average 30 guys per year for more than a decade to suddenly nearly 100 guys a year with the change occurring in the first full season of super shoe availability.

A local guy I know, his dad ran 47:xx

This kid did years of youth club track, 3 years of hs track for the 400, one year of xc.

His prs?

1:01 low 400

28 flat 5k

Make of that what you will

But aren’t we starting to see a negative effect of those shoes? After a year or two of benefiting, don’t the feet and legs get weaker and injuries start rolling in?

Means nothing, other than that he lost in the genetic lottery...

Current college runner, so a couple years removed from a high school myself, but I was there for the post-COVID running Renaissance.

Not sure I qualify as "super fast" now as a 9:0X guy but I would say the main difference aside from the shoes is private coaching. The fact is about 80 to 90 percent of HS distance coaches in this country are absolute garbage. I mean a level of garbage that is hard for many to grasp. 5 workouts a week, no tempo runs, no threshold, no easy runs, no long runs type garbage. Any middle schooler with a copy of Jack Daniel's would be like Jerry Schumacher compared to these guys. There's also no real market accountability because we largely don't have a club system like Europe, so kids are just stuck with whoever coaches at their high school.

Up until COVID private coaching was pretty rare and before social media it was even more uncommon. Now, it is everywhere and kids are finally training properly. Nothing revolutionary, just normal college training tuned down a bit for their level. Not all these private coaches are great, and some of them are probably overtraining the kids for short term gain, but I still think it's a positive development that moves us closer to a Europe type system.

For the older folks listening, imagine replacing alcohol and bad diet with great nutrition. Now think about the poor sleep you had, even if was just a few days per month. Eliminate 4 drunk/hungover nights per month, now replace with massage and other therapeutic efforts.

hot dog and super big gulp after each workout replaced with good food.

Sure, the shoes are faster, but ours were faster than Lindgrin’s and Ryun’s.

Analyze and scrub your life today and you will probably feel a huge boost, running or otherwise. The blueprint for greatness is out and they are taking advantage of it.