This supposed issue of Jakob’s feels pretty contrived, honestly. You can watch him “hit the turbo” in several 1500m races last season. It’s especially obvious in Rabat, Oslo, and Lausanne, where multiple guys are sitting on him going into the final bend and he dusts them over the last 100. It’s not just a matter of the others fading either, you can see his stride change as he powers away from them.
I don’t know where you’re getting the idea he’s unable to shift gears off a fast pace. Bringing up this year’s Oslo race is bizarre, frankly. You acknowledge the extenuating circumstances but then throw them out to make your point lol. And I’m sorry, but what is your evidence for the El G comment?
You are a great poster but I think you are off the mark here.
Appreciate it, yeah I really don't think Jakob is limited much at all and his shifting and top speed has actually gotten pretty darn good. It's just the last 50m extra acceleration. I am not sure if it's there — but I agree with the posters including that say it doesn't really matter. He is going to run the way he's going to run, which is to not let it come down to that 50m unless someone is flat-out better. He will squeeze and the race will be fast. If Kerr or Nuguse is in about the shape, they may be able to overtake him if they run a near-perfect race and time their pass. My only note is that he is different than some other greats of the past (but not Tim Cheruiyot who preferred the same tactics) in this way in that he doesn't trust either the long kick from far out (El Guerrouj grew to), a shorter one (Morceli) or just any sort of kick (Kipyegon, Coe) as long as he's near the front.
Without a doubt. Also shows how the focus on having or kick or not is a moot point.
2 world championship 1500 titles that he lost shows it isn't. Josh also reminded us of that a few weeks ago.
Have you forgotten the youtube video you just saw? Do you think the takeaway from the careers of those two is "should have worked on their kick"? Why should Ingebrigtsen try to be more like Kerr and not more like El G?
2 world championship 1500 titles that he lost shows it isn't. Josh also reminded us of that a few weeks ago.
Have you forgotten the youtube video you just saw? Do you think the takeaway from the careers of those two is "should have worked on their kick"? Why should Ingebrigtsen try to be more like Kerr and not more like El G?
I don't suggest Jakob should work in his kick; he doesn't have it. He isn't a Snell, Ryun or Coe. My point is that he has to win like El G, from a long way out. His problem is that he is not as good as El G, and both Kerr and Wightman have shown that in championship finals.
Have you forgotten the youtube video you just saw? Do you think the takeaway from the careers of those two is "should have worked on their kick"? Why should Ingebrigtsen try to be more like Kerr and not more like El G?
I don't suggest Jakob should work in his kick; he doesn't have it. He isn't a Snell, Ryun or Coe. My point is that he has to win like El G, from a long way out. His problem is that he is not as good as El G, and both Kerr and Wightman have shown that in championship finals.
Not as good as El G? In the 1500m it's very unlikely that he can match El G's achievements (who is by far the most successfull 1500m runner in history). Counting all achievements at the moment it seems like he clearly will top El G.
He is just 23!
He already has topped Snell's and Ryun's achievements (for sure debatable in Snell's case). To top Coe he needs a few more good seasons and maybe a 1500m and/or 5000m WR.
I don't suggest Jakob should work in his kick; he doesn't have it. He isn't a Snell, Ryun or Coe. My point is that he has to win like El G, from a long way out. His problem is that he is not as good as El G, and both Kerr and Wightman have shown that in championship finals.
Not as good as El G? In the 1500m it's very unlikely that he can match El G's achievements (who is by far the most successfull 1500m runner in history). Counting all achievements at the moment it seems like he clearly will top El G.
He is just 23!
He already has topped Snell's and Ryun's achievements (for sure debatable in Snell's case). To top Coe he needs a few more good seasons and maybe a 1500m and/or 5000m WR.
He is not as good as El G was over the 1500/mile and will be unlikely to top El G's achievements over those distances. What Jakob does over any other distances is irrelevant to that discussion.
Comparing his career to Snell (who actually has a better record over his specialty distances than Jakob) and Ryun or Coe has nothing to do with the specific point at issue, which is whether Jakob has a kick and whether it is good enough to beat his opposition regardless of the pace of race. He doesn't. He can finish strongly but he certainly doesn't have the explosive kick of a Snell, Ryun or Coe. That means to beat finishers of the calibre of Kerr and Wightman at their peak he has to run an El G type race. That is a hard way to win, as even El G showed.
This post was edited 34 seconds after it was posted.
Have you forgotten the youtube video you just saw? Do you think the takeaway from the careers of those two is "should have worked on their kick"? Why should Ingebrigtsen try to be more like Kerr and not more like El G?
I don't suggest Jakob should work in his kick; he doesn't have it. He isn't a Snell, Ryun or Coe. My point is that he has to win like El G, from a long way out. His problem is that he is not as good as El G, and both Kerr and Wightman have shown that in championship finals.
No one is as good as El G, but at Jakobs age he had a 12th place from the olympics, 1 silver and 1 wc gold from his second try, and a PR of 3:28.91. Judging by this it seems like El G is not as good as El G. Ingebrigtsen at least has some more time to get closer.
He is not as good as El G was over the 1500/mile and will be unlikely to top El G's achievements over those distances. What Jakob does over any other distances is irrelevant to that discussion.
Comparing his career to Snell (who actually has a better record over his specialty distances than Jakob) and Ryun or Coe has nothing to do with the specific point at issue, which is whether Jakob has a kick and whether it is good enough to beat his opposition regardless of the pace of race. He doesn't. He can finish strongly but he certainly doesn't have the explosive kick of a Snell, Ryun or Coe. That means to beat finishers of the calibre of Kerr and Wightman at their peak he has to run an El G type race. That is a hard way to win, as even El G showed.
Peter Snell had won just one international medal, an olympic gold, at Jakobs point in his career. Wonder how people in here would judge him at that point, or El G after his olympic 12th place, and WC silver. He certainly had no kick and was not strong enough compared to the El G we know today.
When El G, Coe, Ryun, Bekele can't stand up to their own career at the age of 23, I dont see why Ingebrigtsen is expected to do that.
Not as good as El G? In the 1500m it's very unlikely that he can match El G's achievements (who is by far the most successfull 1500m runner in history). Counting all achievements at the moment it seems like he clearly will top El G.
He is just 23!
He already has topped Snell's and Ryun's achievements (for sure debatable in Snell's case). To top Coe he needs a few more good seasons and maybe a 1500m and/or 5000m WR.
He is not as good as El G was over the 1500/mile and will be unlikely to top El G's achievements over those distances. What Jakob does over any other distances is irrelevant to that discussion.
Comparing his career to Snell (who actually has a better record over his specialty distances than Jakob) and Ryun or Coe has nothing to do with the specific point at issue, which is whether Jakob has a kick and whether it is good enough to beat his opposition regardless of the pace of race. He doesn't. He can finish strongly but he certainly doesn't have the explosive kick of a Snell, Ryun or Coe. That means to beat finishers of the calibre of Kerr and Wightman at their peak he has to run an El G type race. That is a hard way to win, as even El G showed.
He can beat anybody with his kick, but it doesn't mean he always will. Obviously he hasn't. But those guys you name are also not undefeated with their kick. Not even close.
And that’s not a criticism. It’s a statement of fact about how he approaches races. He’s not a sit and kicker. He does not, and has never, run a consistent (ish) 1200 with a view to a significant ramp up over the last 200/300. He doesn’t hang on people’s shoulders.
He hasn’t needed a kick because his flat pace, gradually ratcheted up, is too quick for people.
That’s what so fascinating about the upcoming Olympic 1500. The outlier isn’t Jakob. We know what he will do. The outlier is Kerr. No one has any clue what time he is capable of. We also don’t know how he will approach the final. He sat and kicked on him in the World Champs and then, at Oregon, led from much further out.
What we can say is it will be quick. I think it will be 3.27 low.
I don't suggest Jakob should work in his kick; he doesn't have it. He isn't a Snell, Ryun or Coe. My point is that he has to win like El G, from a long way out. His problem is that he is not as good as El G, and both Kerr and Wightman have shown that in championship finals.
No one is as good as El G, but at Jakobs age he had a 12th place from the olympics, 1 silver and 1 wc gold from his second try, and a PR of 3:28.91. Judging by this it seems like El G is not as good as El G. Ingebrigtsen at least has some more time to get closer.
Bandying statistics around misses the point, which is the kind of runners they were/are. Most of you here are blind to that. Blinded by fan adulation.
And that’s not a criticism. It’s a statement of fact about how he approaches races. He’s not a sit and kicker. He does not, and has never, run a consistent (ish) 1200 with a view to a significant ramp up over the last 200/300. He doesn’t hang on people’s shoulders.
He hasn’t needed a kick because his flat pace, gradually ratcheted up, is too quick for people.
That’s what so fascinating about the upcoming Olympic 1500. The outlier isn’t Jakob. We know what he will do. The outlier is Kerr. No one has any clue what time he is capable of. We also don’t know how he will approach the final. He sat and kicked on him in the World Champs and then, at Oregon, led from much further out.
What we can say is it will be quick. I think it will be 3.27 low.
He is not as good as El G was over the 1500/mile and will be unlikely to top El G's achievements over those distances. What Jakob does over any other distances is irrelevant to that discussion.
Comparing his career to Snell (who actually has a better record over his specialty distances than Jakob) and Ryun or Coe has nothing to do with the specific point at issue, which is whether Jakob has a kick and whether it is good enough to beat his opposition regardless of the pace of race. He doesn't. He can finish strongly but he certainly doesn't have the explosive kick of a Snell, Ryun or Coe. That means to beat finishers of the calibre of Kerr and Wightman at their peak he has to run an El G type race. That is a hard way to win, as even El G showed.
He can beat anybody with his kick, but it doesn't mean he always will. Obviously he hasn't. But those guys you name are also not undefeated with their kick. Not even close.
He can't "beat anybody with his kick"; he doesn't have one. You fans live in some kind of fantasy land and don't recognise what can be seen on the track.
He is not as good as El G was over the 1500/mile and will be unlikely to top El G's achievements over those distances. What Jakob does over any other distances is irrelevant to that discussion.
Comparing his career to Snell (who actually has a better record over his specialty distances than Jakob) and Ryun or Coe has nothing to do with the specific point at issue, which is whether Jakob has a kick and whether it is good enough to beat his opposition regardless of the pace of race. He doesn't. He can finish strongly but he certainly doesn't have the explosive kick of a Snell, Ryun or Coe. That means to beat finishers of the calibre of Kerr and Wightman at their peak he has to run an El G type race. That is a hard way to win, as even El G showed.
Peter Snell had won just one international medal, an olympic gold, at Jakobs point in his career. Wonder how people in here would judge him at that point, or El G after his olympic 12th place, and WC silver. He certainly had no kick and was not strong enough compared to the El G we know today.
When El G, Coe, Ryun, Bekele can't stand up to their own career at the age of 23, I dont see why Ingebrigtsen is expected to do that.
Jeezus, some of you are dense here. The point at issue is not how Jakob's career stacks up against others but whether or not he has the kind of finish that can beat anyone regardless of the pace of the race. He doesn't. That's why he has to be compared with a runner like El G and not explosive kickers like Snell, Ryun and Coe.
No one is as good as El G, but at Jakobs age he had a 12th place from the olympics, 1 silver and 1 wc gold from his second try, and a PR of 3:28.91. Judging by this it seems like El G is not as good as El G. Ingebrigtsen at least has some more time to get closer.
Bandying statistics around misses the point, which is the kind of runners they were/are. Most of you here are blind to that. Blinded by fan adulation.
? I have no idea what you are on about.
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Peter Snell had won just one international medal, an olympic gold, at Jakobs point in his career. Wonder how people in here would judge him at that point, or El G after his olympic 12th place, and WC silver. He certainly had no kick and was not strong enough compared to the El G we know today.
When El G, Coe, Ryun, Bekele can't stand up to their own career at the age of 23, I dont see why Ingebrigtsen is expected to do that.
Jeezus, some of you are dense here. The point at issue is not how Jakob's career stacks up against others but whether or not he has the kind of finish that can beat anyone regardless of the pace of the race. He doesn't. That's why he has to be compared with a runner like El G and not explosive kickers like Snell, Ryun and Coe.
Weird how you at some point in any discussion end up throwing around personal attacks. You have made that point over and over an no-one have ever compated him to explosive kickers like Snell, Ryun or Coe. Some have even said that it is a moot point to talk about kick since there have been built great careers without that kind of race.
Jakob is toying around with European B-Elite at sub 3:32. Let's see how it goes when he will have to run sub 3:28 to compete against Kerr, Cheruyiot and Nuguse. Hopefully Wightman will find his way to 3:28 as well.