Can we please just have everyone compete based on their birth sex?

Everyone must compete with their biological sex at birth. IF one opts to forego that and wants to compete against the opposite sex, they must be tested (at their own expense) for testosterone.

Everyone above a certain level has to compete with men, everyone below has to compete with women.

That's it. That's the rule.

Yes, because perfectly reasonable and rational thinking people are paranoid about a "transsexual lobby" indoctrinating the masses.

I don’t understand what you mean. The indoctrination is definitely happening. School kids are being taught about multiple genders, taught that sex is whatever we decide it to be. I didn’t know there was any question of this.

Why test for testosterone when you can just test athletes' DNA to see if they have the SRY gene ? Taking a swab of cells from the cheeks inside the mouth is far less invasive of athletes' privacy, and far less costly and labor-intensive, than having a phlebotomist draw blood from the arm or having officials watch an athlete give a urine sample.

Also, a genetic sex test only has to be done once in an athlete's lifetime. Whereas testosterone would have to be tested continually.

Most American health insurers now cover the NIPT test in the case of most pregnancies - meaning most women can get fetal sex testing from the time they are 8-10 weeks pregnant. From what I've read and been told, more than half of pregnant women in the USA are already electing to have the NIPT. I suspect in a decade the figure will be closer to 100%. So eventually, pretty much everyone born in the USA will have undergone genetic sex testing when then were in utero.

Also, for many years now, every state and territory in the USA has made it mandatory for every newborn born in the jurisdiciton to be screened for a variety of medical conditions using a sample of blood taken by pricking the baby's heel. You can't get a birth certificate for a baby born in the USA without complying with the mandatory screening.

Since this sort of testing is already being done everywhere in the USA, an easy and cheap solution would be for states to add genetic sex testing to the list of things that their already labs check for when doing the screenings.

That would go a long way to solving a big part of problem for school sports within the USA. Only student-athletes born outside of the USA would have to undergo testing later. But again, once a genetic sex test is done, it's good for all time - there's no need to keep testing again and again the way there is with testosterone.

What a bizarre post.

You start with an unsubstantiated claim that "this is shallow, simplistic thinking."

Then you provide strong evidence that it was in fact CORRECT thinking by pointing out that every female event will be won by males (would seem to be a problem to most).

Then you switch to nonsensical name calling about "right wingers."

And in all of that, you provide not a shred of evidence that what I posted earlier is "shallow, simplistic thinking."

Good job! (I guess)

And again, the same sort of nonsense.

Try to get a clue. Here is the clue you need to get: The fact that there will always be exceptions and challenges does not in any way suggest that it is better to use gender to determine the two divisions in competitive sports rather than sex.

Yeah man whatever... you sound like a looney tune.

Males shouldn't compete vs females. It really is that easy.

That's literally it. Males vs Males, females vs females. I have nothing against trans people, or living how you want to live or whatever... But just keep the sport on an even playing field for the two birth genders. Everyone who 'it isn't that simple'... It is that simple, if you compete just based on birth sex.

Agreed totally. So you agree with Stella Walsh running in the 1932 Olympics. I'm glad we're on the same page.

I think it would be nice if we had an activity that promotes physical and mental health, teaches young people the importance of self-discipline and perseverance, develops their ability to work with others and fosters camaraderie among its participants.

It's very important that this activity does not involve any competition so that it does not become all about winning and losing.

Is such activity existed, it would tremendously benefit young people.

Semenya's sex at birth was male. The fact that nobody knew it at the time doesn't change that.

You're totally missing the point. This thread was started because of a runner that everyone knows is a male has been competing in high school races against females.

When Semenya was in high school, everyone thought that Semenya was female which is why Semenya competed against females in high school races.

Semenya was discovered to be a male only AFTER Semenya graduated high school, so that discovery later in life had no impact on Semenya's high school races.

So the idea that the OP had of runners competing in their "sex at birth" doesn't work in all cases.

Excerpts from a New York Times profile of Semenya published on June 28, 2021:

Books for children and young adults have portrayed Semenya as a race and gender activist, a hero, an athlete who overcame bullying to find her identity and confidence on the track.

Her parents, Semenya said, understood that her life would be uncommon and prepared her for it. They let her wear boys’ clothing [including the boys' uniform to school], take on a household role traditionally reserved for sons, and join a teenage boys’ soccer team.

[Semenya] spoke affectionately of her younger days of playing on a dusty field in a rural village, and being celebrated, not isolated, for standing out, for being singular and distinctive.

“As a kid, you’re walking home to the sports ground, you’re playing with boys and your childhood becomes marvelous because everyone loves you because you’re different,” Semenya said with a grin.

[Semenya’s] sporting life became endlessly scrutinized and far more complicated after she became a star runner.

Semenya’s sporting life became scrutinized and complicated after Semenya became a star runner because when Semenya decided to give up playing on a teenage boy's soccer team to focus on becoming a start runner appears to have been the first time in Semenya’s life that Semenya started competing in the girls’ division.

The part of rural South Africa, Limpopo province, where Semenya grew up is extremely patriarchal and rigidly traditional about strict sex/gender roles. It's a part of the world where girls are raised to "know their place." At the time Semenya was a child and teenager, girls in Limpopo didn’t get to play on boys’ sports teams and wear boys' school uniforms or other boys' clothes. They didn't get take on household roles meant for boys and men.

Semenya has three sisters and a brother. None of Caster's sisters got to play boys’ sports, wear a boys' school uniform, or get out of doing the household tasks girls traditionally got stuck with. All those privileges were reserved for Caster, and Caster alone.

In fact, none of Caster’s sisters appear to gotten the chance to compete in sports at all.

None of Caster's sisters were celebrated or given opportunities like Caster was. None of them were celebrated like Caster was. Their childhoods don't appear to have been “marvelous” the way Caster says Caster's was.

The memoir Semenya published last year included a bunch of photos of Semenya growing up. This is the photo Semenya chose to include showing Semenya on a school trip to the beach in Durban when Semenya was 15:

Image:i.ibb.co/Bzsgcqv/Screenshot-2023-11-03...

At the time this photo was taken, public authorities Durban didn’t allow girls and women to go topless at the beach. AFAICT, they still don’t.