He doesn't need to show hes a contender... hes the reigning world champ.
Why on Earth was this ratio'd? Kerr beat Jakob when it actually counted. He has nothing more to prove this year. Sorry if this hurts the Jakob fangirls' feelings.
You stated Kerr at best could have run 3:43.8 in the mile in Eugene. That equals to 3:27.22 in the 1500m. So you estimate that Kerr could have run almost 2 seconds faster in the 1500m than he has ever run and more than 2 seconds faster than he has run this year. (He hasn´t improved his 2021 PB the last 2 years).
And I compare it to your opinion about almost 3 years younger Jakob´s potential in the 1500m. (I think you believe his potential is limited?)
Do you think Jakob can improve in the 1500m next year and if so how much?
I’ll admit I was wrong about Jakobs improvement in the 1500. He can improve in next year the 1500 by maybe .5? He didn’t get perfect drafting in Silesia and can optimize a bit better I think.
Yes I believe Kerr could lop off major time same as Nuguse. He rarely time trials while in peak form. His fitness at Worlds was undeniable which saw him beating Nuguse substantially and then dispatching Mills easily at 5th Ave.
Kerr can dodge Jakob all year and only beat him in a championship final - he goes into the history books as better. Gotta win when it counts.
You mean like such household names such as Nils Schuman?
Do you really consider Emma Coburn as better than Beatrice Kipkoech? I mean, she beat her in the world championships, right?
Do you mean Beatrice Chepkoech? The runner with gold and silver at WC's, silver at CG?
And lets not, lets not forget that she was on her way to medaling in 2017 when she missed a water jump.
The runner who CRUSHED the world record?
It seems its so easy to say its either or, its not, its both. Its precense over time, performing and also being an interesting character. But, Beatrice clearly has better credentials than Coburn AND Schuman. If Kerr only wins medals at championships and perform about the same level as now in the DL circuit, he will be remembered as a great great runner.
You mean like such household names such as Nils Schuman?
Do you really consider Emma Coburn as better than Beatrice Kipkoech? I mean, she beat her in the world championships, right?
Do you mean Beatrice Chepkoech? The runner with gold and silver at WC's, silver at CG?
And lets not, lets not forget that she was on her way to medaling in 2017 when she missed a water jump.
The runner who CRUSHED the world record?
It seems its so easy to say its either or, its not, its both. Its precense over time, performing and also being an interesting character. But, Beatrice clearly has better credentials than Coburn AND Schuman. If Kerr only wins medals at championships and perform about the same level as now in the DL circuit, he will be remembered as a great great runner.
Yes, I boggled the name; but the point remains: Schumann won oly gold with kipketer second in Sydney- is Schumann considered a better runner than Wilson kipketer? Is coburn considered a better steeplechase runner than chepkoech because she “won when it counted”?
Do you mean Beatrice Chepkoech? The runner with gold and silver at WC's, silver at CG?
And lets not, lets not forget that she was on her way to medaling in 2017 when she missed a water jump.
The runner who CRUSHED the world record?
It seems its so easy to say its either or, its not, its both. Its precense over time, performing and also being an interesting character. But, Beatrice clearly has better credentials than Coburn AND Schuman. If Kerr only wins medals at championships and perform about the same level as now in the DL circuit, he will be remembered as a great great runner.
Yes, I boggled the name; but the point remains: Schumann won oly gold with kipketer second in Sydney- is Schumann considered a better runner than Wilson kipketer? Is coburn considered a better steeplechase runner than chepkoech because she “won when it counted”?
You're not comparing the same situations. Kerr has an OG bronze and a WC gold. If he wins next year he will undoubtedly be remembered as winning when it counted. That doesn't mean Jakob won't be remembered, but if he ONLY did well outside of champs he would withouth a doubt not be remembered nearly as fondly.
Yes, I boggled the name; but the point remains: Schumann won oly gold with kipketer second in Sydney- is Schumann considered a better runner than Wilson kipketer? Is coburn considered a better steeplechase runner than chepkoech because she “won when it counted”?
You're not comparing the same situations. Kerr has an OG bronze and a WC gold. If he wins next year he will undoubtedly be remembered as winning when it counted. That doesn't mean Jakob won't be remembered, but if he ONLY did well outside of champs he would withouth a doubt not be remembered nearly as fondly.
Meh, basically the same thing in my opinion. Makes me no difference though- I won’t convince you and you won’t convince me. Wasted time in both our parts.
You're not comparing the same situations. Kerr has an OG bronze and a WC gold. If he wins next year he will undoubtedly be remembered as winning when it counted. That doesn't mean Jakob won't be remembered, but if he ONLY did well outside of champs he would withouth a doubt not be remembered nearly as fondly.
Meh, basically the same thing in my opinion. Makes me no difference though- I won’t convince you and you won’t convince me. Wasted time in both our parts.
What is the same thing, Kerr and Schumann? Coburn and Schumann?
Its not the same thing at all. You're basically just saying "oh great athletes with great times and several medals? Who cares, won't be remembered compared to the best runners of our lifetimes.
Lol...hey, nobody will remember *sprinter* cause the only one is Usain.
You stated Kerr at best could have run 3:43.8 in the mile in Eugene. That equals to 3:27.22 in the 1500m. So you estimate that Kerr could have run almost 2 seconds faster in the 1500m than he has ever run and more than 2 seconds faster than he has run this year. (He hasn´t improved his 2021 PB the last 2 years).
And I compare it to your opinion about almost 3 years younger Jakob´s potential in the 1500m. (I think you believe his potential is limited?)
Do you think Jakob can improve in the 1500m next year and if so how much?
I’ll admit I was wrong about Jakobs improvement in the 1500. He can improve in next year the 1500 by maybe .5? He didn’t get perfect drafting in Silesia and can optimize a bit better I think.
Yes I believe Kerr could lop off major time same as Nuguse. He rarely time trials while in peak form. His fitness at Worlds was undeniable which saw him beating Nuguse substantially and then dispatching Mills easily at 5th Ave.
Kerr first: If Kerr has potential to run low 3:27 in the 1500m why didn´t he destroy Jakob in the Budapest final. He got good pacing for 1400m and should at least have gone sub 3:29 if he really is a 3:27 man. Jakob ran low 3:28 in Tokyo where he got similar from Tim. And at that time Jakob possibly wasn´t a low 3:27 runner.
And why didn´t he run faster in Zürich. He had pacing as Jakob has in his races and ran at a time where he supposely was at his season´s peak. Shouldn´t he be able to at least break the NR if he is a low 3:27 runner?
Jakob: I agree that Jakob didn´t have a perfect 1500m time trial this year. If the pacers had gone out a second slower in Silesia he would possibly have had contact all the way ganing sufficiently in the end to break 3:27.
We, however, still have an important disagreement about his future improvement in the 1500m, I think:
I (still) believe he can put new layers on his aerobic foundation for several years to come and that this will be sufficient to go well under both the mile and the 1500m WR. Barring illness and injury.
I think that you, JWH, Salvatore and many other more or less articulated posters agree that his room for improvement in the 1500m is very limited?
So back to Kerr: If 22 years old Jakob can only improve with .5 second why do you think Kerr at 25 can improve with almost 2 seconds?
Finally: I must admit that I was VERY surprised that Nuguse could run as fast in the Bowerman mile as he did. The conditions were not very good so I think Nuguse´s performance indicates a 1500m sub 3:27 under better circumstances.
I think he probably would have run 3:44.5-3:46.0 at Pre, with it being more probable that he’s over that range than under (because 3:46.0 is still fast in spite of two guys running REALLY fast). Saying it’s more likely he run 3:43-high than 3:46 is failing to appreciate how stunning Yared’s performance was. Jakob ran basically right in line with 3:27.14-4:43.13-7:54.10 and Nuguse was right there. Nuguse ran his last 1500m faster in 3:28.25 and averaged 3:28.75 pace, vs. Kerr’s 3:29.01 1500 PB. Sure, Yared’s 1500 PB coming in was 3:29.02, but I’m not willing to assume that Kerr was up for a similarly amazing race.
I do think what you're saying makes sense, but also, we'd be foolish to think that Josh Kerr isn't better than his PR (which is from Tokyo 2021). Yared nipping him at the line after Kerr led most of that Weltklasse didn't make me think Yared was better than Kerr -- I came away from that race still thinking I'd pick Kerr 6-7/10 times vs. Yared.
Jakob, Kerr, Yared and Wightman do seem to be a cut above at the moment, however.
I agree that Jakob and Nuguse are a cut above, Nuguse after his surprising fast Bowerman Mile.
As I have argued in a post above: There is no reason to think Kerr is on the same level. Nuguse made a "quantum jump" in Eugene. But why should Kerr can do the same?
Wightman: Jake was a sub-elite on the international level for most of his career. First medal was a bronze in the European 1500m final in 2018 after a 17 year old Jakob and Marcin Lewandowski. In the WC in Doha he got fifth just behind Jakob and just before Kerr.
In Tokyo 2021 he faded in the 1500m final (possibly spend to most energy in the semifinal which he won).
He ran one GREAT race in 2022 when he won the WC 1500m final in Eugene. He also ran some GOOD races in the 800m but he didn´t win any 1500m/ mile other the WC gold.
He has been out the whole season reportedly with different injuries. Considering this and his age I find it rather unlikely he will ever be a factor again.
I do think what you're saying makes sense, but also, we'd be foolish to think that Josh Kerr isn't better than his PR (which is from Tokyo 2021). Yared nipping him at the line after Kerr led most of that Weltklasse didn't make me think Yared was better than Kerr -- I came away from that race still thinking I'd pick Kerr 6-7/10 times vs. Yared.
Jakob, Kerr, Yared and Wightman do seem to be a cut above at the moment, however.
I agree that Jakob and Nuguse are a cut above, Nuguse after his surprising fast Bowerman Mile.
As I have argued in a post above: There is no reason to think Kerr is on the same level. Nuguse made a "quantum jump" in Eugene. But why should Kerr can do the same?
Wightman: Jake was a sub-elite on the international level for most of his career. First medal was a bronze in the European 1500m final in 2018 after a 17 year old Jakob and Marcin Lewandowski. In the WC in Doha he got fifth just behind Jakob and just before Kerr.
In Tokyo 2021 he faded in the 1500m final (possibly spend to most energy in the semifinal which he won).
He ran one GREAT race in 2022 when he won the WC 1500m final in Eugene. He also ran some GOOD races in the 800m but he didn´t win any 1500m/ mile other the WC gold.
He has been out the whole season reportedly with different injuries. Considering this and his age I find it rather unlikely he will ever be a factor again.
Kerr first: If Kerr has potential to run low 3:27 in the 1500m why didn´t he destroy Jakob in the Budapest final. He got good pacing for 1400m and should at least have gone sub 3:29 if he really is a 3:27 man. Jakob ran low 3:28 in Tokyo where he got similar from Tim. And at that time Jakob possibly wasn´t a low 3:27 runner.
And why didn´t he run faster in Zürich. He had pacing as Jakob has in his races and ran at a time where he supposely was at his season´s peak. Shouldn´t he be able to at least break the NR if he is a low 3:27 runner?
Jakob: I agree that Jakob didn´t have a perfect 1500m time trial this year. If the pacers had gone out a second slower in Silesia he would possibly have had contact all the way ganing sufficiently in the end to break 3:27.
We, however, still have an important disagreement about his future improvement in the 1500m, I think:
I (still) believe he can put new layers on his aerobic foundation for several years to come and that this will be sufficient to go well under both the mile and the 1500m WR. Barring illness and injury.
I think that you, JWH, Salvatore and many other more or less articulated posters agree that his room for improvement in the 1500m is very limited?
So back to Kerr: If 22 years old Jakob can only improve with .5 second why do you think Kerr at 25 can improve with almost 2 seconds?
Finally: I must admit that I was VERY surprised that Nuguse could run as fast in the Bowerman mile as he did. The conditions were not very good so I think Nuguse´s performance indicates a 1500m sub 3:27 under better circumstances.
He beat him convincingly in the final. The Tokyo race was paced near perfectly and didn’t have the ups and downs in pace of Budapest.
Zurich pacing was atrocious and not comparable to the mostly good pacing Jakob had this year. Kerr is also not as good a time trialer as Jakob, and I don’t think it was a perfect spot for him either. Pre Mile is a perfect spot to knock off time. No leading necessary, no jostling in the pack. I don’t think you’ve realized the *why* of Nuguses’s huge time drop. Yes he’s in strong fitness, but he also had the luxury of a perfect time trial setup with Jakob/pacers delivering a perfect pace from start to finish with no traffic to navigate. Same conditions were there for Kerr.